Broken Bones [Archive] - Wizards Community

Broken Bones [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ransolot
02-05-08, 12:46 AM Can someone help me out here. My friend and I are having a discussion about what spell(s) can heal broken bones. So far it seems that the only spell that we can find with any mention of mending broken bones is Regenerate.

If there is any other spells that someone knows that will mend a broken bone, please post back here. Thanks!!!:D
Thane26425
02-05-08, 01:02 AM Can someone help me out here. My friend and I are having a discussion about what spell(s) can heal broken bones. So far it seems that the only spell that we can find with any mention of mending broken bones is Regenerate.

If there is any other spells that someone knows that will mend a broken bone, please post back here. Thanks!!!:D

I always allowed any healing spell to work for that. You might want to say that a Heal check is required first, to properly set the bones so that the spell heals them properly, otherwise the spell simply knits them as they are, which could be crippling.
Wheldrake
02-05-08, 01:18 AM D&D combat is so abstract that there are no wound results that lead to broken bones. That's the main reason there are no spells dealing explicitly with them.

Let any healing spell do it. More hit points healed = faster bone setting.

YMMV, --- Wheldrake
groveborn
02-05-08, 01:52 AM D&D has no mechanical rules for broken bones at all. It is assumed that all damage, be it bloody gashes, or from smashed bones, are simply healed at a steady rate, and that all damage is properly cared for.

Since all physical damage is fairly universal, any cure spell will heal the bones at the same rate as bloody gashes (which CAN take just as long to heal naturally, real life).

If you and your buddy play that detailed, I'd suggest creating some house rules on the subject of broken bones, and play them. Otherwise, just assume damage is damage and let cure do its thing.
Seeker95
02-05-08, 09:20 AM In D&D, a heal check will do it.
Ransolot
02-05-08, 03:23 PM D&D combat is so abstract that there are no wound results that lead to broken bones. That's the main reason there are no spells dealing explicitly with them.

Let any healing spell do it. More hit points healed = faster bone setting.

YMMV, --- Wheldrake

While I agree about the combat part, this did happen during combat....But it happened from a 60 fall out of a tower window. I gotta try to put something in there besides "You took x amount of falling damage."= Boring. Also, the only spell that does mention anything, that I have found, dealing with broken bones is Regenerate. So there is one that does deal with this. I was just wanting to know if there was any other ones. Thanks :D
PhaedrusXY
02-05-08, 03:43 PM I gotta try to put something in there besides "You took x amount of falling damage."= Boring. If you're going to make up rules on broken bones, then you're also going to have to make up rules on how to deal with them. I don't know why Regenerate has that line about broken bones. I'd guess it is a relic of earlier editions, similiar to how trolls can reattach severed limbs... when there are no rules for severing limbs in the current edition of D&D. However, in earlier editions, the Sword of Sharpness could sever limbs. Perhaps there were rules on breaking bones in earlier editions, but I don't remember any.
Thane26425
02-05-08, 04:02 PM If you're going to make up rules on broken bones, then you're also going to have to make up rules on how to deal with them. I don't know why Regenerate has that line about broken bones. I'd guess it is a relic of earlier editions, similiar to how trolls can reattach severed limbs... when there are no rules for severing limbs in the current edition of D&D. However, in earlier editions, the Sword of Sharpness could sever limbs. Perhaps there were rules on breaking bones in earlier editions, but I don't remember any.

I've been playing D&D since first edition and I don't recall there ever being a "core" hit location system. Dragon Magazine had a very detailed hit location chart, charts actually for different body types. No idea what issue, but somewhere in the late 80's.

Second Edition Complete Fighter's handbook also had a system. If included hit locations and what effect different damage would do to them. So far I've seen nothing about it 3.5.

However, I don't see anything wrong with a DM saying that after a fall a character has broken some bones. It really is just an aesthetic thing to add feel to the game, so long as regular healing works on it.
LSMFT
02-05-08, 04:10 PM it happened from a 60 fall out of a tower window. I gotta try to put something in there besides "You took x amount of falling damage."= Boring.
OK, if you find abstract hp damage "boring" and are willing to add some creativity to it and call the damage "broken bones," why are you constrained by the abstract Xd6+y healing of Cure spells?

Basically, you made up the idea of broken bones, as no rules about damage that specific exist in D&D. You're then going to have to make up your own way to knit bones together.

Regenerate is kind of weird regarding its power to restore limbs, as normally, limbs aren't hacked off. (In earlier editions, this was more likely, so it might be a hold over.) As far as its reference to "broken bones" I have to assume that since there is not any way within the game mechanics to break one, that is more flavor than anything else.
Wellspring
02-10-08, 07:43 PM Agreed... if the DM chooses to RP specific types of damage, then the normal cure spells should be fine for curing it.

I get hit with a mace for 50 damage-- that's probably a broken bone or two. Now you come and cast Cure Critical Wounds, then that's healing it back up.

Honestly there are all kinds of mechanical problems with retrofitting a called shot system into the game, and having effects like broken bones is effectively that.
sblaxman
02-11-08, 02:16 PM If I remember correctly, 1/2e specificly said that cure light/mod/crit wounds did not heal or close any cut, wound, hole, break, etc, it simply restored HP... wounds needed to be healed in other fashions... they laid out no mechanic for it, but left that up to the DM. Regen had the power however to actually close the wounds.

I'm more a fan of the old method (I liked the openness) but in 3.5 it doesn't say either way, so go with how you like... my pick would be to make a heal check to set the bone... say 10 weeks to heal (15 if heal check failed)... with CW taking 1 week off for every 10 HP healed....

I'm just pulling that out my who-ha, depends how you want the mechanic to be (back in action the next day or laid up for a while to heal), mine is a more slow heal process, I'm sure others will recommend other fast/instant heal methods as well... of you go the slow method... breaks should be rare since it will take time/resources out... if you can instant heal a break, they should be more common since they are not any real inconvenience at all
Thane26425
02-11-08, 02:32 PM If I remember correctly, 1/2e specificly said that cure light/mod/crit wounds did not heal or close any cut, wound, hole, break, etc, it simply restored HP... wounds needed to be healed in other fashions... they laid out no mechanic for it, but left that up to the DM. Regen had the power however to actually close the wounds.

I'm more a fan of the old method (I liked the openness) but in 3.5 it doesn't say either way, so go with how you like... my pick would be to make a heal check to set the bone... say 10 weeks to heal (15 if heal check failed)... with CW taking 1 week off for every 10 HP healed....

I'm just pulling that out my who-ha, depends how you want the mechanic to be (back in action the next day or laid up for a while to heal), mine is a more slow heal process, I'm sure others will recommend other fast/instant heal methods as well... of you go the slow method... breaks should be rare since it will take time/resources out... if you can instant heal a break, they should be more common since they are not any real inconvenience at all

I don't recall exactly either. There was an item called the Periphet of Wound Closure that only closed wounds but didn't actually heal them. One was feature in the Dragonlance novels, where a character named Dalamar (sp.) was wearing one and was wounded but kept alive by the item. However, he did have broken bones which were not set by the magic and they grated painfully together when he moved.

Anyway, I always played it that they healed the wound as completely as possible. However, it would probably help to actually hold the sides of a cut together and lined up properly to make sure things healed correctly. I just played like that was assumed to be happening, except in the middle of a fight of course, but never made a game mechanic out of it to avoid the complexity.

Probably the simplest hit location system I have seen is in GURPS. You use a
3d6 I think it is to determine hit location and each location has a fraction of your hit points it can take before it becomes damaged and useless until healed, or how much is needed to cut it off. It also has a critical hit chart and a critical miss chart. I used them, modified, in one 2nd edition campaign and it worked, but the players got tired of the extra paperwork after a while.
sblaxman
02-12-08, 01:04 AM Yeah, it's why I never incorperated broken bones. I always DMed that the players spent their down time stitching up their cuts, salving their bruises etc, along with repairing armor, sharpening their sword, mending their clothes, etc. The scars all stay (a seasoned adventurer fighter is a mess of scars)...

I'd play around with crits a lot when the players were hit... instead of just adding damage, I'd often add different effects instead (knocked down, stunned, bleeding wound, sprain, etc)... it took away the fear of a instakill crit strike, but still added some mechanical effects to crits. For the bleeding wound (say a bad slash wound) the player would need to stitch up after the battle to stop the bleeding to avoid extra damage (heal check in 3e, I just ran it as automatic for 2e, any adventurer should know basic stuff like that)
Ransolot
02-12-08, 09:55 PM Ok. Since it has been said over and over that there are no rules for broken bones in D&D. Now, let it be known, IMO, not having these type of things in the game make for a VERY BORING session. So, my friend and I have come up with a system. Feel free to leave your feedback and Im sure for some people, let the flaming begin :D

A Greater Sunder attempt is an attempt to target a particular part of a body. A Greater Sunder attempt works normally as a sunder attempt would (S or B weapons only).The point of a Greater Sunder attempt is to disable a particular part of a body. This action is a full round action. The parts of the body that can be attacked are as follows: Legs, arms, torso and head. A Greater Sunder attempt would happen as follows:

Step 1- Attack of Opportunity. Without the Greater Sunder feat, your lack of training to harm specific spots of the body shows and you provoke a attack of opportunity. If the attack of opportunity lands, you loose your turn.
Step 2- If the AoO fails, you now take a attack (At all normal attack modifiers) against the targets AC, size modifier, body part size modifier. The body part modifiers are as follows: Legs and torso, +1 to armor class, arms and head, +2 to armor class.
Step 3- Roll damage. Damage is only from normal damage roll and str modifier. You do not add weapon bonuses (magical or otherwise) to a Greater Sunder Attempt.

Body Part Hardness Hit Points
Arms 5 15
Legs 8 20
Torso 8 15
Head 10 10

As a creature gets larger or smaller, its bones get tougher or weaker. A larger creatures bones are tougher than a small creatures. The modifiers to a creatures bone hardness are as follows:

Fine -8, Diminutive -4, Tiny -2, Small -1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4 and Colossal +8.

Once you deplete the body part of all of its hit points, the effects are as follows:

Body Part

Effect
Arms- -2 to all attack rolls and arm becomes useless. Anything that was held in the said arm is instantly dropped. Arm cannot be used until it is healed (see Heal Broken Bones)

Legs- Leg is broken and useless. Target instantly falls prone and cannot use leg again until leg is healed (see Heal Broken Bones)

Torso- Broken ribs. Target is in server pain and has a difficult time breathing. If a spell caster, must succeed a Fort save DC 15 before any spell with a verbal component can be cast. Anyone effected by this is reduced to only taking a standard action until healed (See Heal Broken Bones).

Head- Target knocked unconscious for 1d4 rounds and takes 2 points of Wisdom damage. The skull can only be repaired with the heal skill (see Heal Broken Bones).

NEXT!!!!!

Healing broken bones takes two Heal Checks, DC 20, each roll. The process takes 3d6 minutes.
The first roll represents the ability to identify the broken bone and the process of setting it. (This is the first check made at the beginning of the 3d6 minutes, on the first minute).
The second roll determines weather or not the bone was set correctly. (This roll takes place on the final minute).

If you fail by 5 or more on the first roll, you misdiagnose the type of break that actually happened.
If you fail by 5 or more on the second roll, you fail completely and the bone can now only be set through means of surgery. Surgery requires a healers kit, a fairly clean environment and a table. The check for a surgery is a DC 30 and it takes 1d4+1 hours.

Retry: No. If you fail your first roll by 1-4, you cannot diagnose the broken bone. Someone else will need to try from this point. On the second roll, you cannot retry. If you fail by 1-4, you set the bone wrong and the patient will now have some form disability (DM’s discretion)

This is just to set the bone, once the bone is set (right or wrong), the only spells that can mend a broken bone is cure serious wounds (Cl lv3), cure critical wounds(Cl lv4), heal (Cl lv6) and regenerate (Cl lv7). Otherwise, the bone, once set, can heal on its own over time. Natural bone healing takes 2d6 weeks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ransolot 02-05-08, 12:46 AM	Can someone help me out here. My friend and I are having a discussion about what spell(s) can heal broken bones. So far it seems that the only spell that we can find with any mention of mending broken bones is Regenerate. If there is any other spells that someone knows that will mend a broken bone, please post back here. Thanks!!!:D
Thane26425 02-05-08, 01:02 AM	Can someone help me out here. My friend and I are having a discussion about what spell(s) can heal broken bones. So far it seems that the only spell that we can find with any mention of mending broken bones is Regenerate. If there is any other spells that someone knows that will mend a broken bone, please post back here. Thanks!!!:D I always allowed any healing spell to work for that. You might want to say that a Heal check is required first, to properly set the bones so that the spell heals them properly, otherwise the spell simply knits them as they are, which could be crippling.
Wheldrake 02-05-08, 01:18 AM	D&D combat is so abstract that there are no wound results that lead to broken bones. That's the main reason there are no spells dealing explicitly with them. Let any healing spell do it. More hit points healed = faster bone setting. YMMV, --- Wheldrake
groveborn 02-05-08, 01:52 AM	D&D has no mechanical rules for broken bones at all. It is assumed that all damage, be it bloody gashes, or from smashed bones, are simply healed at a steady rate, and that all damage is properly cared for. Since all physical damage is fairly universal, any cure spell will heal the bones at the same rate as bloody gashes (which CAN take just as long to heal naturally, real life). If you and your buddy play that detailed, I'd suggest creating some house rules on the subject of broken bones, and play them. Otherwise, just assume damage is damage and let cure do its thing.
Seeker95 02-05-08, 09:20 AM	In D&D, a heal check will do it.
Ransolot 02-05-08, 03:23 PM	D&D combat is so abstract that there are no wound results that lead to broken bones. That's the main reason there are no spells dealing explicitly with them. Let any healing spell do it. More hit points healed = faster bone setting. YMMV, --- Wheldrake While I agree about the combat part, this did happen during combat....But it happened from a 60 fall out of a tower window. I gotta try to put something in there besides "You took x amount of falling damage."= Boring. Also, the only spell that does mention anything, that I have found, dealing with broken bones is Regenerate. So there is one that does deal with this. I was just wanting to know if there was any other ones. Thanks :D
PhaedrusXY 02-05-08, 03:43 PM	I gotta try to put something in there besides "You took x amount of falling damage."= Boring. If you're going to make up rules on broken bones, then you're also going to have to make up rules on how to deal with them. I don't know why Regenerate has that line about broken bones. I'd guess it is a relic of earlier editions, similiar to how trolls can reattach severed limbs... when there are no rules for severing limbs in the current edition of D&D. However, in earlier editions, the Sword of Sharpness could sever limbs. Perhaps there were rules on breaking bones in earlier editions, but I don't remember any.
Thane26425 02-05-08, 04:02 PM	If you're going to make up rules on broken bones, then you're also going to have to make up rules on how to deal with them. I don't know why Regenerate has that line about broken bones. I'd guess it is a relic of earlier editions, similiar to how trolls can reattach severed limbs... when there are no rules for severing limbs in the current edition of D&D. However, in earlier editions, the Sword of Sharpness could sever limbs. Perhaps there were rules on breaking bones in earlier editions, but I don't remember any. I've been playing D&D since first edition and I don't recall there ever being a "core" hit location system. Dragon Magazine had a very detailed hit location chart, charts actually for different body types. No idea what issue, but somewhere in the late 80's. Second Edition Complete Fighter's handbook also had a system. If included hit locations and what effect different damage would do to them. So far I've seen nothing about it 3.5. However, I don't see anything wrong with a DM saying that after a fall a character has broken some bones. It really is just an aesthetic thing to add feel to the game, so long as regular healing works on it.
LSMFT 02-05-08, 04:10 PM	it happened from a 60 fall out of a tower window. I gotta try to put something in there besides "You took x amount of falling damage."= Boring. OK, if you find abstract hp damage "boring" and are willing to add some creativity to it and call the damage "broken bones," why are you constrained by the abstract Xd6+y healing of Cure spells? Basically, you made up the idea of broken bones, as no rules about damage that specific exist in D&D. You're then going to have to make up your own way to knit bones together. Regenerate is kind of weird regarding its power to restore limbs, as normally, limbs aren't hacked off. (In earlier editions, this was more likely, so it might be a hold over.) As far as its reference to "broken bones" I have to assume that since there is not any way within the game mechanics to break one, that is more flavor than anything else.
Wellspring 02-10-08, 07:43 PM	Agreed... if the DM chooses to RP specific types of damage, then the normal cure spells should be fine for curing it. I get hit with a mace for 50 damage-- that's probably a broken bone or two. Now you come and cast Cure Critical Wounds, then that's healing it back up. Honestly there are all kinds of mechanical problems with retrofitting a called shot system into the game, and having effects like broken bones is effectively that.
sblaxman 02-11-08, 02:16 PM	If I remember correctly, 1/2e specificly said that cure light/mod/crit wounds did not heal or close any cut, wound, hole, break, etc, it simply restored HP... wounds needed to be healed in other fashions... they laid out no mechanic for it, but left that up to the DM. Regen had the power however to actually close the wounds. I'm more a fan of the old method (I liked the openness) but in 3.5 it doesn't say either way, so go with how you like... my pick would be to make a heal check to set the bone... say 10 weeks to heal (15 if heal check failed)... with CW taking 1 week off for every 10 HP healed.... I'm just pulling that out my who-ha, depends how you want the mechanic to be (back in action the next day or laid up for a while to heal), mine is a more slow heal process, I'm sure others will recommend other fast/instant heal methods as well... of you go the slow method... breaks should be rare since it will take time/resources out... if you can instant heal a break, they should be more common since they are not any real inconvenience at all
Thane26425 02-11-08, 02:32 PM	If I remember correctly, 1/2e specificly said that cure light/mod/crit wounds did not heal or close any cut, wound, hole, break, etc, it simply restored HP... wounds needed to be healed in other fashions... they laid out no mechanic for it, but left that up to the DM. Regen had the power however to actually close the wounds. I'm more a fan of the old method (I liked the openness) but in 3.5 it doesn't say either way, so go with how you like... my pick would be to make a heal check to set the bone... say 10 weeks to heal (15 if heal check failed)... with CW taking 1 week off for every 10 HP healed.... I'm just pulling that out my who-ha, depends how you want the mechanic to be (back in action the next day or laid up for a while to heal), mine is a more slow heal process, I'm sure others will recommend other fast/instant heal methods as well... of you go the slow method... breaks should be rare since it will take time/resources out... if you can instant heal a break, they should be more common since they are not any real inconvenience at all I don't recall exactly either. There was an item called the Periphet of Wound Closure that only closed wounds but didn't actually heal them. One was feature in the Dragonlance novels, where a character named Dalamar (sp.) was wearing one and was wounded but kept alive by the item. However, he did have broken bones which were not set by the magic and they grated painfully together when he moved. Anyway, I always played it that they healed the wound as completely as possible. However, it would probably help to actually hold the sides of a cut together and lined up properly to make sure things healed correctly. I just played like that was assumed to be happening, except in the middle of a fight of course, but never made a game mechanic out of it to avoid the complexity. Probably the simplest hit location system I have seen is in GURPS. You use a 3d6 I think it is to determine hit location and each location has a fraction of your hit points it can take before it becomes damaged and useless until healed, or how much is needed to cut it off. It also has a critical hit chart and a critical miss chart. I used them, modified, in one 2nd edition campaign and it worked, but the players got tired of the extra paperwork after a while.
sblaxman 02-12-08, 01:04 AM	Yeah, it's why I never incorperated broken bones. I always DMed that the players spent their down time stitching up their cuts, salving their bruises etc, along with repairing armor, sharpening their sword, mending their clothes, etc. The scars all stay (a seasoned adventurer fighter is a mess of scars)... I'd play around with crits a lot when the players were hit... instead of just adding damage, I'd often add different effects instead (knocked down, stunned, bleeding wound, sprain, etc)... it took away the fear of a instakill crit strike, but still added some mechanical effects to crits. For the bleeding wound (say a bad slash wound) the player would need to stitch up after the battle to stop the bleeding to avoid extra damage (heal check in 3e, I just ran it as automatic for 2e, any adventurer should know basic stuff like that)
Ransolot 02-12-08, 09:55 PM	Ok. Since it has been said over and over that there are no rules for broken bones in D&D. Now, let it be known, IMO, not having these type of things in the game make for a VERY BORING session. So, my friend and I have come up with a system. Feel free to leave your feedback and Im sure for some people, let the flaming begin :D A Greater Sunder attempt is an attempt to target a particular part of a body. A Greater Sunder attempt works normally as a sunder attempt would (S or B weapons only).The point of a Greater Sunder attempt is to disable a particular part of a body. This action is a full round action. The parts of the body that can be attacked are as follows: Legs, arms, torso and head. A Greater Sunder attempt would happen as follows: Step 1- Attack of Opportunity. Without the Greater Sunder feat, your lack of training to harm specific spots of the body shows and you provoke a attack of opportunity. If the attack of opportunity lands, you loose your turn. Step 2- If the AoO fails, you now take a attack (At all normal attack modifiers) against the targets AC, size modifier, body part size modifier. The body part modifiers are as follows: Legs and torso, +1 to armor class, arms and head, +2 to armor class. Step 3- Roll damage. Damage is only from normal damage roll and str modifier. You do not add weapon bonuses (magical or otherwise) to a Greater Sunder Attempt. Body Part Hardness Hit Points Arms 5 15 Legs 8 20 Torso 8 15 Head 10 10 As a creature gets larger or smaller, its bones get tougher or weaker. A larger creatures bones are tougher than a small creatures. The modifiers to a creatures bone hardness are as follows: Fine -8, Diminutive -4, Tiny -2, Small -1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4 and Colossal +8. Once you deplete the body part of all of its hit points, the effects are as follows: Body Part Effect Arms- -2 to all attack rolls and arm becomes useless. Anything that was held in the said arm is instantly dropped. Arm cannot be used until it is healed (see Heal Broken Bones) Legs- Leg is broken and useless. Target instantly falls prone and cannot use leg again until leg is healed (see Heal Broken Bones) Torso- Broken ribs. Target is in server pain and has a difficult time breathing. If a spell caster, must succeed a Fort save DC 15 before any spell with a verbal component can be cast. Anyone effected by this is reduced to only taking a standard action until healed (See Heal Broken Bones). Head- Target knocked unconscious for 1d4 rounds and takes 2 points of Wisdom damage. The skull can only be repaired with the heal skill (see Heal Broken Bones). NEXT!!!!! Healing broken bones takes two Heal Checks, DC 20, each roll. The process takes 3d6 minutes. The first roll represents the ability to identify the broken bone and the process of setting it. (This is the first check made at the beginning of the 3d6 minutes, on the first minute). The second roll determines weather or not the bone was set correctly. (This roll takes place on the final minute). If you fail by 5 or more on the first roll, you misdiagnose the type of break that actually happened. If you fail by 5 or more on the second roll, you fail completely and the bone can now only be set through means of surgery. Surgery requires a healers kit, a fairly clean environment and a table. The check for a surgery is a DC 30 and it takes 1d4+1 hours. Retry: No. If you fail your first roll by 1-4, you cannot diagnose the broken bone. Someone else will need to try from this point. On the second roll, you cannot retry. If you fail by 1-4, you set the bone wrong and the patient will now have some form disability (DM’s discretion) This is just to set the bone, once the bone is set (right or wrong), the only spells that can mend a broken bone is cure serious wounds (Cl lv3), cure critical wounds(Cl lv4), heal (Cl lv6) and regenerate (Cl lv7). Otherwise, the bone, once set, can heal on its own over time. Natural bone healing takes 2d6 weeks.