broken or not? [Archive] - Wizards Community

broken or not? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eikcuf
10-10-06, 03:18 PM Im not to sure aabout this spell any help would be great :D
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Spell Name
mind, fear
Level:6
Components: V,S
Casting Time:1 Round
Range:Touch
Effect:Causes the target to run at his(her) maxium speed away from the caster, taking 1point of damage per foot travled. A will save will negate the damage but not the running.
Duration:Instananeous
Saving Throw:Will partial
Spell Resistance:

As you can see there is some missing data. If at all posible could you help fill it in?
Is this broken or under powered?
Thanks in advance:)
Thiez
10-10-06, 03:59 PM I've done a bit of a rewrite. Didn't really like the original versions, as most creatures can run 120 to 160 feet per round. That's quite a lot of damage, but the spell is never going to be damaged, with the spell being instantaneous and all, the running lasting ... instantaneous.

Curse of Painful Travel
Necromancy [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Level: Wiz 6
Components: V,S
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

As you touch your victim, you fill him with a most terrible dread. The subject becomes panickedand has horrible visions of you chasing him. The victim gets 1d4 damage per caster level for each round the he spends fleeing.

If the subject is no longer panicked and sees you within the duration of the spell, he is immediatly panicked again (no save).
DarkRhystar
10-10-06, 04:13 PM Original: Let's see... in one round, a character with medium or lighter armor can run 120 feet and one in heavy armor can run 90 feet. So if the duration is 1 round, that means that the character will take 90-120 damage on a failed save per casting of the spell.

Not only that, but the subject will also be completely out of the fight for 2 rounds (1 to run away, 1 to run back).

Level 6? Um... no.

Thiez: Let's see... a level 12 caster could do 12d4 per round resulting in anywhere between 12d4 and 144d4 damage. That's 12 to 576 damage. Just to further put this into perspective... disintegrate (also level 6) does 24d6 damage at level 12 which equates to 24 to 144 damage.

Broken? Just a little... too much.
Thiez
10-10-06, 04:41 PM DarkRhystar: Let's see. Level 5: Slay Living. Save or Die. This spell, level 6: Save or get lots and lots of damage, but have a huge chance of survival if someone simply casts remove fear on you (or dispel magic). Also, fear is quite easy to save against, and there are some spells, like:

Remove Fear: +4 bonus against fear effects for 10 minutes.
Heroism, Greater: Immunity to fear for 1 min./level.
Heroes’ Feast: Immunity to fear for 12 hours.
Dispel Magic, Greater: Removes this spell.

that help in situations like this (either cure or prevent). Paladins also grant bonuses, and are immune themselves. In case of emergency, do some subdual damage to the victim. If you ain't fleeing, you're not getting hurt.

Yes, the spell has a huge damage potential, but only those who are alone or very unlucky will ever risk getting all of it. Very unlucky people fall victim to Save or Dies anyway.
HeroOfthePeople
10-10-06, 04:48 PM well personally, I think its a pretty good spell. but not broken, being that you could dispel it or the like.
InfoStorm
10-10-06, 05:54 PM I would balance with the following modifications:
1a. 1 hp damage per square (5') traveled. OR (my preference)
1b. 1d6 hp of damage per round fled.

2. Damage cause by the spell is non-lethal

I would go with 1b, because having damage based of feet moved penalizes creatures with higher movement rated unfairly. As it stands, a dwarf and a human are equally terrified, but the human dies faster because he goes farther.

I state 2 because it's more if an image of passing out from exhaustion caused by the terror.
overelemental
10-10-06, 06:04 PM I would balance with the following modifications:
1a. 1 hp damage per square (5') traveled. OR (my preference)
1b. 1d6 hp of damage per round fled.

2. Damage cause by the spell is non-lethal

I would go with 1b, because having damage based of feet moved penalizes creatures with higher movement rated unfairly. As it stands, a dwarf and a human are equally terrified, but the human dies faster because he goes farther.

I state 2 because it's more if an image of passing out from exhaustion caused by the terror.

1b and 2 are both very good suggestions to balance this spell. Apart from the insane damage, it was a very good spell idea. Would make for a very useful addition to any caster's repertoire.
Eikcuf
10-10-06, 07:15 PM Ok. Here is the rework. How is it now?

Curse of painfull travel
Necromancy [Fear, Mind-Affecting]
Level:6
Components: V,S
Casting Time:1 Round
Range:Touch
Effect:See text
Duration:See text
Saving Throw:Will Negates
Spell Resistance:

As you touch your victim, you fill him with a most terrible dread. The subject becomes panicked and has horrible visions of you chasing him.The victim takes 1d6 damage per caster level for each round the he spends fleeing.The subject continues to flee untill he he can make his save, each round after the frist spent fleeing grants a +2 bonus to the save.

Thanks to everyone that helped.
DarkRhystar
10-10-06, 08:55 PM Yes, the spell has a huge damage potential, but only those who are alone or very unlucky will ever risk getting all of it. Very unlucky people fall victim to Save or Dies anyway.

You make a spell that deals significantly more damage than other spells of the same level along with debilitating effects and contend it's balanced?

Good luck with that.
Thiez
10-11-06, 02:28 PM Why thank you :P

I'd argue that this spell is less dangerous than a Hold Person heightened to level 6.
Puca
10-11-06, 03:34 PM Id change the opening clause of the description from "As you touch your victim" to "On a successful touch attack..."

Make it clear.

1d6 per caster-level per round is a lot. Its objectively very good before you consider the additional benefits of removing the opponent from combat and depriving them of the ability to act for multiple rounds.
Melancholy
10-11-06, 04:02 PM I would set a cap for the damage. Maybe a maximum of 10d6 or 15d6 per round spent fleeing?

.
Puca
10-11-06, 04:18 PM Just throwing this out there: What if it was non-lethal damage?

Not as powerful and it seems, to me, to fit the flavor of taking damage from the exertion of running.
Thiez
10-11-06, 07:16 PM A cap of 10d6, hehe, it's not like you can cast this spell with a caster level lower than 11 ;)
Nezkrul
10-12-06, 01:17 AM id say a 15d6 cap, but have the damage occur as part of the touch attack (no save), the save is for the panic condition. what do ya say? oh and SR yes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eikcuf 10-10-06, 03:18 PM	Im not to sure aabout this spell any help would be great :D ' Spell Name mind, fear Level:6 Components: V,S Casting Time:1 Round Range:Touch Effect:Causes the target to run at his(her) maxium speed away from the caster, taking 1point of damage per foot travled. A will save will negate the damage but not the running. Duration:Instananeous Saving Throw:Will partial Spell Resistance: As you can see there is some missing data. If at all posible could you help fill it in? Is this broken or under powered? Thanks in advance:)
Thiez 10-10-06, 03:59 PM	I've done a bit of a rewrite. Didn't really like the original versions, as most creatures can run 120 to 160 feet per round. That's quite a lot of damage, but the spell is never going to be damaged, with the spell being instantaneous and all, the running lasting ... instantaneous. Curse of Painful Travel Necromancy [Fear, Mind-Affecting] Level: Wiz 6 Components: V,S Range: Touch Target: Creature touched Duration: 1 round/level Saving Throw: Will negates Spell Resistance: Yes As you touch your victim, you fill him with a most terrible dread. The subject becomes panickedand has horrible visions of you chasing him. The victim gets 1d4 damage per caster level for each round the he spends fleeing. If the subject is no longer panicked and sees you within the duration of the spell, he is immediatly panicked again (no save).
DarkRhystar 10-10-06, 04:13 PM	Original: Let's see... in one round, a character with medium or lighter armor can run 120 feet and one in heavy armor can run 90 feet. So if the duration is 1 round, that means that the character will take 90-120 damage on a failed save per casting of the spell. Not only that, but the subject will also be completely out of the fight for 2 rounds (1 to run away, 1 to run back). Level 6? Um... no. Thiez: Let's see... a level 12 caster could do 12d4 per round resulting in anywhere between 12d4 and 144d4 damage. That's 12 to 576 damage. Just to further put this into perspective... disintegrate (also level 6) does 24d6 damage at level 12 which equates to 24 to 144 damage. Broken? Just a little... too much.
Thiez 10-10-06, 04:41 PM	DarkRhystar: Let's see. Level 5: Slay Living. Save or Die. This spell, level 6: Save or get lots and lots of damage, but have a huge chance of survival if someone simply casts remove fear on you (or dispel magic). Also, fear is quite easy to save against, and there are some spells, like: Remove Fear: +4 bonus against fear effects for 10 minutes. Heroism, Greater: Immunity to fear for 1 min./level. Heroes’ Feast: Immunity to fear for 12 hours. Dispel Magic, Greater: Removes this spell. that help in situations like this (either cure or prevent). Paladins also grant bonuses, and are immune themselves. In case of emergency, do some subdual damage to the victim. If you ain't fleeing, you're not getting hurt. Yes, the spell has a huge damage potential, but only those who are alone or very unlucky will ever risk getting all of it. Very unlucky people fall victim to Save or Dies anyway.
HeroOfthePeople 10-10-06, 04:48 PM	well personally, I think its a pretty good spell. but not broken, being that you could dispel it or the like.
InfoStorm 10-10-06, 05:54 PM	I would balance with the following modifications: 1a. 1 hp damage per square (5') traveled. OR (my preference) 1b. 1d6 hp of damage per round fled. 2. Damage cause by the spell is non-lethal I would go with 1b, because having damage based of feet moved penalizes creatures with higher movement rated unfairly. As it stands, a dwarf and a human are equally terrified, but the human dies faster because he goes farther. I state 2 because it's more if an image of passing out from exhaustion caused by the terror.
overelemental 10-10-06, 06:04 PM	I would balance with the following modifications: 1a. 1 hp damage per square (5') traveled. OR (my preference) 1b. 1d6 hp of damage per round fled. 2. Damage cause by the spell is non-lethal I would go with 1b, because having damage based of feet moved penalizes creatures with higher movement rated unfairly. As it stands, a dwarf and a human are equally terrified, but the human dies faster because he goes farther. I state 2 because it's more if an image of passing out from exhaustion caused by the terror. 1b and 2 are both very good suggestions to balance this spell. Apart from the insane damage, it was a very good spell idea. Would make for a very useful addition to any caster's repertoire.
Eikcuf 10-10-06, 07:15 PM	Ok. Here is the rework. How is it now? Curse of painfull travel Necromancy [Fear, Mind-Affecting] Level:6 Components: V,S Casting Time:1 Round Range:Touch Effect:See text Duration:See text Saving Throw:Will Negates Spell Resistance: As you touch your victim, you fill him with a most terrible dread. The subject becomes panicked and has horrible visions of you chasing him.The victim takes 1d6 damage per caster level for each round the he spends fleeing.The subject continues to flee untill he he can make his save, each round after the frist spent fleeing grants a +2 bonus to the save. Thanks to everyone that helped.
DarkRhystar 10-10-06, 08:55 PM	Yes, the spell has a huge damage potential, but only those who are alone or very unlucky will ever risk getting all of it. Very unlucky people fall victim to Save or Dies anyway. You make a spell that deals significantly more damage than other spells of the same level along with debilitating effects and contend it's balanced? Good luck with that.
Thiez 10-11-06, 02:28 PM	Why thank you :P I'd argue that this spell is less dangerous than a Hold Person heightened to level 6.
Puca 10-11-06, 03:34 PM	Id change the opening clause of the description from "As you touch your victim" to "On a successful touch attack..." Make it clear. 1d6 per caster-level per round is a lot. Its objectively very good before you consider the additional benefits of removing the opponent from combat and depriving them of the ability to act for multiple rounds.
Melancholy 10-11-06, 04:02 PM	I would set a cap for the damage. Maybe a maximum of 10d6 or 15d6 per round spent fleeing? .
Puca 10-11-06, 04:18 PM	Just throwing this out there: What if it was non-lethal damage? Not as powerful and it seems, to me, to fit the flavor of taking damage from the exertion of running.
Thiez 10-11-06, 07:16 PM	A cap of 10d6, hehe, it's not like you can cast this spell with a caster level lower than 11 ;)
Nezkrul 10-12-06, 01:17 AM	id say a 15d6 cap, but have the damage occur as part of the touch attack (no save), the save is for the panic condition. what do ya say? oh and SR yes.