Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord_of_Rivendell 11-25-07, 07:55 PM	I've seen a lot of threads devoted to summoning, but none of them seems to cover buffing what's summoned all that well. Have I missed an important thread somewhere? The same is true for Animal Companions. There are lots of threads that cover the subject, but not many that focus on how to buff them, it seems. LoR
Narthon 11-25-07, 08:52 PM	It generally isn't worth the time. Back in second, in one campaign, we had a +5 glaive-guisarme that no one wanted to use, we would shove it into the hands of a summon. If the summon died or the spell ended, the weapon would just fall to the ground.
Lord_of_Rivendell 11-26-07, 09:29 AM	It generally isn't worth the time. I think that for some characters, it may be well worth the time. For instance, Druid or Wizard summoners who intend to do no fighting on their own, may NEED to buff their summoned creatures to get the job done while the summoned creature is available. I suspect that this could be similar to the list of spells used to buff one's animal companion, but I couldn't find a list of those either. LoR
DiceGolem 11-26-07, 09:48 AM	There is that one feat (from PH2, I think) that allows a creature you summon to be affected by one of your other low-level spells as part of the action to cast the summoning spell. But otherwise, why buff a summon when you can simply summon another one?
LSMFT 11-26-07, 10:05 AM	It’s about actions. Every action I take to buff a summoned creature is an action I’m not using to do something potentially more effective, like fireball my opponent. The summon spells typically don’t last long enough to buff them up pre-battle. That said, it is nice to cast Haste after your summoned creatures have arrived, but that sort of screws the party members for a couple of rounds. They are also “allies” so bardic music affects them too and spells like Bless work for them. Animal companions are different. The ability to buff them and the motive for doing so are there. I typically play arcane casters, and don’t have an animal companion, but as a sorcerer, with many possible castings of spells like Mage Armor, I always like to drop one on the druid’s wolf. As a front-line guy, a companion is also good for any spell you’d place on your fighter. In one campaign, I routinely cast Arms of Plenty on the party attack dog. Bite, trip, then two claw attacks versus the prone opponent and with the possibility of rending. Pretty nice, and the blustering of the druid about turning his mount into an aberration was fun RP-wise.
tyrecian 11-26-07, 06:02 PM	the feat, Augment Summoning, offers a +4 to str and con, but it is an enhancement bonus so that you can't stack bear's end or BStrength on top of it. It automatically comes with it. As for buffing summons, depends on your PC. If, like you said, you are a wizard or a cleric and relying upon the summons to be a tank, then sure a magic vestment or a shield of faith will not go awry on the summons. Furthermore, Shield Other can be very nice for taking some damage away (cleric 2nd) since the summons might stay close to you. Generally at low levels, the summons dont stay very long, but at 10th level, you summon and have 10 rounds, 2 buffs means that you have an enhanced creature for 8 more, so it is often OK to think in terms of summons (especially if you are summoning multiples with a lesser extend rod). Summoning a creature that is going to do something out of combat is a sure way to get invis cast on it, unless you want it interrupted. There are many ways to deal with summons. Shield Other, Shield of Faith, Aid, Bless, Silence (a real caster killer with high grapple summons), Protection from etc., Blur, Invisibility, Spider Climb... and all these are just 1-2nd level wizard/cleric buffs. Bards can buff a summon even further. Really, summon monster, and especially planar binding and ally lines have great potential for power, but the monsters showing up bare is a nasty catch. Beefing them up is only going to improve how they perform, so i suggest going for it, all the way. pearls of power for Shield of Faith are never a bad idea anyways, as the spell scales and it is pretty nice for every party member that doesnt have enchanted armor.
BW0222 11-26-07, 08:34 PM	Lord_of_Rivendell, Buffing typically isn't worth the time. Animal growth is one of the few exceptions. Particularly if you have say an animal companion and summon say 1d3 or d4+1 other animals. The increasing size, DR, and hit points is worth it. However, buffing generally isn't worth it. * The time isn't worth what you could do with other two or three spell combinations. * There are simple defenses against summoned creatures - dispelling, protection spells, or just fleeing and outlasting them. * Most summoned creatures are dramatically lower than the CR of the creatures they are fighting. As such many creatures can kill them in a couple of rounds. * There are few buff spells as useful as just summoning another creature. For example, if you summon an air elemental... there is no spell which doubles its attacks, hit points, etc. But summoning another does. * Often you don't care if the summoned creature does much. Typically, it is there to block, absorb damage, harrass spellcasters, etc. Animal companions are different. Long lasting spells (great magic fang, stone skin, etc.) are often useful -- as is share spelling it if you remain close. There are no simple defenses (protection from evil, dispell magic, etc.) against an animal companion and the buff might last several combats.
TonyZbaraschuk 11-27-07, 06:37 PM	Another thing to keep in mind is that party area buffs, such as bless or prayer or bardsong, will inherently buff your summoned creatures. Imbue summoning is probably not worth it; better to just use a higher-level summon spell. (Maybe if you were doing divine metamagic with it or something... hmmm, have to try that). The feat Beckon the Frozen from Frostburn lets you give your summoned creatures the cold subtype (and fire vulnerability) and do an extra 1d6 cold damage with each attack. No level gain, and it's optional, so you don't have to use it if you're up against something where the cold won't help.
CryoSilver 11-28-07, 12:21 AM	Some buff spells that you'd use on your party anyways would be better cast after summoning. Holy Aura/Shield of Law/Etc come to mind as high level, multi-creature buffs.