Buffs Better version. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Buffs Better version. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Th_Ar_Al
09-24-06, 07:30 PM Hi, was thinking in creating better versions of buffs like Bull Stregth and others similars one to higher spell levels.

Bull strength II = 3th level. just like normal BS but Str+6? or maybe 2+1/2lvls (max +8)

A bull stregth that last one day could be from level 3th?

Can anyone help to calculate that? I was generally thinking in make those spells a) give a bigger bonus b) last longer.
DragonBringerX
09-25-06, 12:56 AM take the persistant metamagic feat...pg. 81 Complete Arcane
ups spell 4 lvs, as long as duration is longer than instantaneous...it last allllllll day
Th_Ar_Al
09-25-06, 11:09 AM take the persistant metamagic feat...pg. 81 Complete Arcane
ups spell 4 lvs, as long as duration is longer than instantaneous...it last allllllll day
I feel dirty...
wonlee76
09-25-06, 11:17 AM take the persistant metamagic feat...pg. 81 Complete Arcane
ups spell 4 lvs, as long as duration is longer than instantaneous...it last allllllll day

First, can't use persistant to "touch" range spells.
Second, I think its +6 levels for persistent.

As to the OP: If you're thinking of expanding the duration to something like 1 hour/level, maybe a level 4 or 5 might be appropriate with a +4 enhancement bonus to the stat. Level 3 seems a bit too low since extending the 2nd level versions with metamagic would double the relatively low duration of the 2nd level versions. *sigh* I miss the ol' 3.0 duration on these spells.
Yaeri
09-25-06, 11:51 AM Hi, was thinking in creating better versions of buffs like Bull Stregth and others similars one to higher spell levels.

Bull strength II = 3th level. just like normal BS but Str+6? or maybe 2+1/2lvls (max +8)

A bull stregth that last one day could be from level 3th?

Can anyone help to calculate that? I was generally thinking in make those spells a) give a bigger bonus b) last longer.
A spell that is exactly like bull's strength in all regards, except for a higher bonus (+6) I would put that at level 4.
For a duration increase from 1 minute/level to 10 minutes/level I'd add another level.

Bull's strength +8, seems like a 6th level spell to me.
It's hard to tell exactly. Spells like polymorph really blur the lines of what's acceptable. It's a 4th level spell that also lasts 1 minute/level, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a creature you could change to that upped all your physical stats with +8 in one go.

Items that give such a big bonus are epic, but in terms of power it seems ok for a spell of that level. It lasts for only 1 minute per level after all.
Jhaelen
09-25-06, 06:10 PM A bull stregth that last one day could be from level 3th?This is definitely a no, no. There's a reason the 3.0 spell durations were reduced.
As for increasing the bonus you've also got to be careful. Compare it to the items that increase stats - as Yaeri pointed out, you're quickly entering the epic range here and their cost doesn't increase linearly, it's squared.
Or compare it to a Barbarian's Rage: They get a +6 at level 11 and +8 at level 20.
If you'd like better buff spells, it's probably more balanced to create spells that increase several attributes at once (up to +4) or offer additional benefits besides stat increases.

As for polymorph: This spell has been officially declared overpowered, thus it's a very bad basis for comparing it to other spells in terms of power.
Osedox
09-25-06, 06:30 PM Divine Agility is a good precedent. Its 5th level and gives a +10 Dex for 1 round level. So I think making six arcane spells of 5th level, higher for a longer duration, would be pretty fair. Afterall the bonus doesent stack with items, and it is too short of a duration to be anything but a first round buff. For names think: Monsterous Strength, Incredible Agility, Undying Constitution, Titanic Intellect, Crystal Insight, and Ledgendary Personality. I think 7th level for 1 min/level, and 8th level for 10mins/level might work, but I dunno if +10 Con is worth an 8th level spell, even if it lasts a couple hours.
Th_Ar_Al
09-25-06, 08:54 PM How about +4 in two atributes is enough for 3th level? how about if was 1minute only

EDIT:Osedox I liked the news buffys, but the Titanic Intellect don't quite fit, Titanic remembers stregth =p
Osedox
09-25-06, 09:01 PM well titanic means huge, but they are flexible:)
Jhaelen
09-26-06, 03:35 PM How about +4 in two atributes is enough for 3th level? how about if was 1minute onlyCompare it to the 2nd level psionic power 'animal affinity': it grants a +4 to any one attribute for 1 minute/manifester level. It can be augmented to grant +4 to an additional attribute for each additional 5 power points.
So it's +4 to two attributes at level 4.5 (8 PSP), three attributes at level 7 (13 PSP) and four attributes at level 9.5 (18 PSP).
It cannot be augmented to increase the bonus or the duration.
Th_Ar_Al
09-27-06, 11:54 AM Well, psionic power are usually more vesitale, I suppose that something like that could be done for 3th level spell for a cleric.

Animal Afinity = +4 in a atributte plus +4 in additional atribute for every 5lvls.

I think difficult to convince my DM to do that however.
Yaeri
09-27-06, 01:50 PM In another thread, they mentioned owl's insight. It's a spell from "magic of Faerun". It's a 5th level druid spell and gives an enhancement bonus to Wis, equal to half the caster's level.
swindy
09-27-06, 02:32 PM Well there is rightous might, its a 5th level spell, doesnt last long but gives +8 strength, +4 constitution, DR that goes up at certain levels. Dont bother with bull strength once you get this spell, unless... you can use them together? Now that would be dirty. Hmm, just a thought of instead taking different spells rather than trying to change them.
wonlee76
09-27-06, 04:39 PM Well there is rightous might, its a 5th level spell, doesnt last long but gives +8 strength, +4 constitution, DR that goes up at certain levels. Dont bother with bull strength once you get this spell, unless... you can use them together? Now that would be dirty. Hmm, just a thought of instead taking different spells rather than trying to change them.

Look up the errata on Rightous Might. It got diminished in effectiveness. +4 Str, +2 Con I think and DR starting at 3/align and maxing out at 9/align. But it would stack with enhancement bonuses to stats since I think the bonuses to Con and Strength are "size" bonuses.
Th_Ar_Al
09-28-06, 06:50 PM I looking for 3th level spells

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Th_Ar_Al 09-24-06, 07:30 PM	Hi, was thinking in creating better versions of buffs like Bull Stregth and others similars one to higher spell levels. Bull strength II = 3th level. just like normal BS but Str+6? or maybe 2+1/2lvls (max +8) A bull stregth that last one day could be from level 3th? Can anyone help to calculate that? I was generally thinking in make those spells a) give a bigger bonus b) last longer.
DragonBringerX 09-25-06, 12:56 AM	take the persistant metamagic feat...pg. 81 Complete Arcane ups spell 4 lvs, as long as duration is longer than instantaneous...it last allllllll day
Th_Ar_Al 09-25-06, 11:09 AM	take the persistant metamagic feat...pg. 81 Complete Arcane ups spell 4 lvs, as long as duration is longer than instantaneous...it last allllllll day I feel dirty...
wonlee76 09-25-06, 11:17 AM	take the persistant metamagic feat...pg. 81 Complete Arcane ups spell 4 lvs, as long as duration is longer than instantaneous...it last allllllll day First, can't use persistant to "touch" range spells. Second, I think its +6 levels for persistent. As to the OP: If you're thinking of expanding the duration to something like 1 hour/level, maybe a level 4 or 5 might be appropriate with a +4 enhancement bonus to the stat. Level 3 seems a bit too low since extending the 2nd level versions with metamagic would double the relatively low duration of the 2nd level versions. sigh I miss the ol' 3.0 duration on these spells.
Yaeri 09-25-06, 11:51 AM	Hi, was thinking in creating better versions of buffs like Bull Stregth and others similars one to higher spell levels. Bull strength II = 3th level. just like normal BS but Str+6? or maybe 2+1/2lvls (max +8) A bull stregth that last one day could be from level 3th? Can anyone help to calculate that? I was generally thinking in make those spells a) give a bigger bonus b) last longer. A spell that is exactly like bull's strength in all regards, except for a higher bonus (+6) I would put that at level 4. For a duration increase from 1 minute/level to 10 minutes/level I'd add another level. Bull's strength +8, seems like a 6th level spell to me. It's hard to tell exactly. Spells like polymorph really blur the lines of what's acceptable. It's a 4th level spell that also lasts 1 minute/level, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a creature you could change to that upped all your physical stats with +8 in one go. Items that give such a big bonus are epic, but in terms of power it seems ok for a spell of that level. It lasts for only 1 minute per level after all.
Jhaelen 09-25-06, 06:10 PM	A bull stregth that last one day could be from level 3th?This is definitely a no, no. There's a reason the 3.0 spell durations were reduced. As for increasing the bonus you've also got to be careful. Compare it to the items that increase stats - as Yaeri pointed out, you're quickly entering the epic range here and their cost doesn't increase linearly, it's squared. Or compare it to a Barbarian's Rage: They get a +6 at level 11 and +8 at level 20. If you'd like better buff spells, it's probably more balanced to create spells that increase several attributes at once (up to +4) or offer additional benefits besides stat increases. As for polymorph: This spell has been officially declared overpowered, thus it's a very bad basis for comparing it to other spells in terms of power.
Osedox 09-25-06, 06:30 PM	Divine Agility is a good precedent. Its 5th level and gives a +10 Dex for 1 round level. So I think making six arcane spells of 5th level, higher for a longer duration, would be pretty fair. Afterall the bonus doesent stack with items, and it is too short of a duration to be anything but a first round buff. For names think: Monsterous Strength, Incredible Agility, Undying Constitution, Titanic Intellect, Crystal Insight, and Ledgendary Personality. I think 7th level for 1 min/level, and 8th level for 10mins/level might work, but I dunno if +10 Con is worth an 8th level spell, even if it lasts a couple hours.
Th_Ar_Al 09-25-06, 08:54 PM	How about +4 in two atributes is enough for 3th level? how about if was 1minute only EDIT:Osedox I liked the news buffys, but the Titanic Intellect don't quite fit, Titanic remembers stregth =p
Osedox 09-25-06, 09:01 PM	well titanic means huge, but they are flexible:)
Jhaelen 09-26-06, 03:35 PM	How about +4 in two atributes is enough for 3th level? how about if was 1minute onlyCompare it to the 2nd level psionic power 'animal affinity': it grants a +4 to any one attribute for 1 minute/manifester level. It can be augmented to grant +4 to an additional attribute for each additional 5 power points. So it's +4 to two attributes at level 4.5 (8 PSP), three attributes at level 7 (13 PSP) and four attributes at level 9.5 (18 PSP). It cannot be augmented to increase the bonus or the duration.
Th_Ar_Al 09-27-06, 11:54 AM	Well, psionic power are usually more vesitale, I suppose that something like that could be done for 3th level spell for a cleric. Animal Afinity = +4 in a atributte plus +4 in additional atribute for every 5lvls. I think difficult to convince my DM to do that however.
Yaeri 09-27-06, 01:50 PM	In another thread, they mentioned owl's insight. It's a spell from "magic of Faerun". It's a 5th level druid spell and gives an enhancement bonus to Wis, equal to half the caster's level.
swindy 09-27-06, 02:32 PM	Well there is rightous might, its a 5th level spell, doesnt last long but gives +8 strength, +4 constitution, DR that goes up at certain levels. Dont bother with bull strength once you get this spell, unless... you can use them together? Now that would be dirty. Hmm, just a thought of instead taking different spells rather than trying to change them.
wonlee76 09-27-06, 04:39 PM	Well there is rightous might, its a 5th level spell, doesnt last long but gives +8 strength, +4 constitution, DR that goes up at certain levels. Dont bother with bull strength once you get this spell, unless... you can use them together? Now that would be dirty. Hmm, just a thought of instead taking different spells rather than trying to change them. Look up the errata on Rightous Might. It got diminished in effectiveness. +4 Str, +2 Con I think and DR starting at 3/align and maxing out at 9/align. But it would stack with enhancement bonuses to stats since I think the bonuses to Con and Strength are "size" bonuses.
Th_Ar_Al 09-28-06, 06:50 PM	I looking for 3th level spells