Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Oya971 03-10-07, 05:36 PM	Hi all, My fighter is in the following situation. He knows that there is an invisible wizard standing some 10-15 feet away from him. The wizard has started incanting. My fighter is almost sure of his position (the wizard is between an altar and a wall, my fighter is at the right of the altar). My intention is for my fighter to bullrush in the direction I think the wizard is so that he can disrupt the spell. My questions are: - can you actually bullrush something you can't see? Here the situation is quite simple, my fighter just has to run straight and he'll get in contact with the wizard's square. - assuming that my fighter can bullrush the invisible wizard, can it disrupt the spell? Does it provoke a concentration check? If you think of any other way for my fighter to grapple the wizard, plz let me know :) thx
Vegepygmy 03-11-07, 12:33 AM	I can tell you how I would rule: Yes, your fighter can bull rush an invisible opponent. You still have to pick the right square to have any chance of success, and the 50% miss chance applies (of course). If you pick the wrong square, but wind up moving through the opponent's square, it is treated as an overrun (and the opponent wisely chooses not to block you). If you succeed in bull rushing the opponent while he is casting a spell, he is treated as if subjected to "extraordinarily violent motion" (Concentration DC 20 + spell level). If you think of any other way for my fighter to grapple the wizard, plz let me knowYou mean, aside from actually grappling him? You could use the "groping to find an invisible creature" rules (DMG, page 295).
Gnarl 03-11-07, 05:04 AM	I can tell you how I would rule: Yes, your fighter can bull rush an invisible opponent. You still have to pick the right square to have any chance of success, and the 50% miss chance applies (of course). If you pick the wrong square, but wind up moving through the opponent's square, it is treated as an overrun (and the opponent wisely chooses not to block you). If you succeed in bull rushing the opponent while he is casting a spell, he is treated as if subjected to "extraordinarily violent motion" (Concentration DC 20 + spell level). You mean, aside from actually grappling him? You could use the "groping to find an invisible creature" rules (DMG, page 295). I mostly agree but what's that 50% thing you're talking about?
magenificent 03-11-07, 05:07 AM	I mostly agree but what's that 50% thing you're talking about? Attacks against invisible opponents suffer a 50% miss chance.
Gnarl 03-11-07, 02:30 PM	Attacks against invisible opponents suffer a 50% miss chance. I know, but you don't need to make an attack roll during a bull rush. Do you still get the 50% miss chance?
Vegepygmy 03-11-07, 09:38 PM	I would say yes, the 50% miss chance applies even though there is no attack roll. (Bear in mind, this is all 100% unofficial. It's just how I would handle it if I were DM.)
FntsyWlkr 03-12-07, 01:13 PM	Can you bullrush? Yes. I would say your cances are better because you can hear him as well. It does count as an attack, in the PHB isn't it listed as a "Special Attack?" But the rules are just different. -D-