Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dthamilaye 10-30-03, 07:04 AM	Hello. I DM a group and last play session we had probably our biggest spell fight in the whole campaign. It has not been resolved yet and will continue at next session. Well, quite a lot of questions came up from players and from myself too. 1) Does 'Spell Turning' -spell turn back a targetted 'Greater Dispell'? 2) If the 'Spell Turning' does turn back 'Greater Dispell', but only partially (not enough levels to turn back completely), how would you dispell partially? Reduce the caster level of the dispell? Or some other way? Or %-chance to affect only one of the casters? 3) If a person is in 'Ghostform' (T&B), ie, in ethereal plane, but manifested as ghost, and he uses Cube of Force. Does the cube appear in Ethereal AND Material plane, or just one of them? 4) (Derived from number 3)-> Can a manifested person decide, which plane any magical effect affects? I assume he can cast spells to either Ethereal or Material plane, but how about effects from items (other than Cube of Force)? Nothing with touch effects work in Material plane, but how about wands, circlets of blasting, emanation spells like 'Protection from Evil', Sanctuary etc. Which plane(s) do they affect? 5) 2 persons have 'Spell Turning' on, and one casts a spell to another. It creates a resonating field. If the result is 1-70 (Dissipates harmlessly without effect), does the spell remove its spell level from both 'Spell Turning' spells, or do both 'Spell Turning' spells remain intact? (In the latter case, 2 casters with 'Spell Turning' could cast their whole reperoaire of spells without effect. This is even worse, if targetted dispels are also turned) 6) Druid ability 'thousand faces'. If the druid is Outsider, can he (at will) alter himself to , for example, Lantern Archon? Ie, a small ball of light with fly 60' (Perfect). 7) How about Fey'Ri? According to Races of Faerun (IIRC) they can alter self to humanoid forms. Did this change after 3.5, do they just have 'Alter Self' at will, without any restrictions, or does the 'humanoid only' still stand? Some magic item prices: 8) Permanent 'Mind Blank' item costed 240kgp in 3.0, but with the addition of 'if the duration is 24h or greater, halve the price' in 3.5, it is only 120kgp in 3.5. Is this reasonable price for it? 9) How about permanent Death Ward for 112kgp? 10) Half-clay golem (MM2). It is immune to slashing and piercing. If someone hits it with a sword+1, which is Flaming, Acid, Frost, Sonic and Shock, do those damages still count? (Yeah, I know acid heals it, just asking generally). Ie, there would be some use to hit him, even if the normal sword damage does not go through. 11) How about Vicious-ability? 2d6 damage to target and 1d6 to wielder. Does that work on golems? 12) Elminsters Effulgent Epuration (MoF). Does this also negate 'Dispell'-spells as any other spell, or do the dispells have a normal chance to remove the whole spell? How about Mordenkainen's Disjunction? As I read it, EEE would negate any dispell or even the Disjunction as any other spell. Anyone with EEE on would be invincible against magic. 13) Dragons are immune to paralysis and Hold-spells. How about spells that inflict Daze or Stun to the dragon? Are they immune to them too? 14) Does 'Freedom of Movement' negate Daze or Stunned-conditions? (It negates paralysis and Holds). 15) Heh... just a thought our druid asked: He wildshapes into Volodini (UEast), he gains plant type and all benefits from it and some other benefits. Then he Alter Selfs himself to, for example, a mephit, gaining wings (flyspeed) and additional natural armour and possible other benefits like water breathing etc. Is combining Polymorph and Alter Self ok rules-wise? Thank You for answering.
True Balance 10-30-03, 07:43 AM	i'll try and answer a few. 1. if its targetted yes. 2. use the guidelines in the spell-turning description for how long the duration of a targetted dispel lasts. a tagetted dispel last 1d4 rounds normally. 3. "force" effects cast on material effect ethereal but not vice versa. 4. don't know for sure but probably able to pick. 5. hav'nt thought of that but probably does'nt affect your total spell level turning. 8. yes. 9. no. 10. creature is not immune to the weapon effects. 11. yes. 13. if it does'nt state they are immune then they are not immune. 14. a little debatable but i'd say yes.
Sacrusha 10-30-03, 08:20 AM	1. Yes, if Dispel Magic is targeted at someone protected by Spell Turning, it gets reflected. 2. Percentage chance. 3. The Ghost is manifested, therefore on the ethereal and the material plane. The cube of force works normally, as if used by a fully material creature. 4. They should affect the plane the user choses when activating them. 5. IIRC, it doesn't drain levels from the Spell Turning, but in that case you either use area spells, or you target the spell turning with a GDM directly instead of targeting the person protected by it 6. I can't say anything about that without looking at the books. 7. see 6. 8. Yes, it is. Mind Blank 1/day costs 15*8*1800/5, lasts all day long, doesn't take up a slot but is more suceptible to dispelling. 9. Is reasonable, perhaps a little cheap, but that's the guidelines. 10. Yes, bonus damage triggers if you hit, not if you do damage. 11. I don't have the books with me(A&EG?), but if vicious doesn't give a damage type, it should probably be the same as the weapon's damage type. 12. Yes, anyone with EEE is invincible to enemy magic that would affect him, but targeting the EEE with a dispell still works. Summons and buffs also work. EEE is of the same power as Shapechange, nearly broken, but there are several ways around it. 13. Daze != stun != paralyzis. Immunity to paralyzis doesn't help against being stunned and vice versa. 14. If you are dazed you can still physically move, same if you are stunned. FoM won't help, but you seem to use Magic of Faerun, so you should look up Favor of Illmater. 15. I think rules wise it is ok, but I would houserule that whichever polymorphing effect(WS, SC, Polymorph, AS, ...) is cast last supresses any previous polymorphing effect for it's duration.
Dthamilaye 10-30-03, 08:54 AM	Thanks for your answers, True Balance and Sacrusha. 5. IIRC, it doesn't drain levels from the Spell Turning, but in that case you either use area spells, or you target the spell turning with a GDM directly instead of targeting the person protected by it Ahhh.. we haven't noticed that specific spells can be singulary targetted by dispell. Does that mean that, for example, Spell Turning would not have a chance to reflect the Dispell if the Dispell was targetted directly at it? 8. Yes, it is. Mind Blank 1/day costs 15*8*1800/5, lasts all day long, doesn't take up a slot but is more susceptible to dispelling. Good point. 12. Yes, anyone with EEE is invincible to enemy magic that would affect him, but targeting the EEE with a dispell still works. Summons and buffs also work. EEE is of the same power as Shapechange, nearly broken, but there are several ways around it. So, again, one can dispell the EEE with directed Dispell? Thats nice. 14. If you are dazed you can still physically move, same if you are stunned. FoM won't help, but you seem to use Magic of Faerun, so you should look up Favor of Illmater. Gonna check that up. Thanks again :).
Bloodtide_the_Red 10-30-03, 09:45 PM	6) In the Realms you might be a Native Outsider(it's in the FRCS), so note they have diffrent rules then pure outsiders. If your a normal outsider, you can take the form of anything of your 'type'. Oddly, you can only assume the form of a creature with the same type as your normal form...so if you were an outsider, then you could only assume outsider forms. I would not allow a lantern archon though, you can't go from physical to 'ball of light'..though by the rules there is no reson why you could not. 7)Fey'ri's do not have the alter self 'spell-like' ability. They can change their shape at will...but it's not connected to or taken from any spell. It also says 'humanoid forms', but not 'types'. They are using 'humanoid' as 'anything with two arms/legs and a head'. Note aslo Fey'ri are Native Outsiders. 15)Wild shape and polymorph don't realy stack well. You could wild shape into a Volodind and get the plant type. BUT then when you use the thousand faces 'alter self'...your type is plant. So you can only assume plant forms. Wild shape/polymorph changes your type. BT
PhaedrusXY 10-30-03, 10:49 PM	6) Druid ability 'thousand faces'. If the druid is Outsider, can he (at will) alter himself to , for example, Lantern Archon? Ie, a small ball of light with fly 60' (Perfect). 7) How about Fey'Ri? According to Races of Faerun (IIRC) they can alter self to humanoid forms. Did this change after 3.5, do they just have 'Alter Self' at will, without any restrictions, or does the 'humanoid only' still stand?I hate the new rules on Alter Self, Polymorph Self, and Shapechange... I have a ninja character with the 1,000 Faces ability from the Ninja Spy prestige class, and it's obviously supposed to be used as a means to disguise yourself in that prestige class. This character also happens to be an Outsider from a template he has. Technically, he can no longer use his Thousand Faces ability to disguise himself as a humanoid... The DM agreed that this was ridiculous, so the version he uses as a house rule is more like the 3.0 one. I haven't tried any of the abuses that being an Outsider with Alter Self opens up in 3.5. Frankly, I'd rather have the ability to use it as a disguise than be able to turn myself into a Lantern Archon, and I don't want to push it with his "good will".
He Who Shall Not Be Named 10-30-03, 11:41 PM	Before I answer any, a "*" answer means, "Well, it maybe ok by the rules, but that would break your game, so tell your players no." 1. Yes 2. If there arent enough levels, I would say you cant turn it at all. 3+4. Most magic actually is in effect on both, but it usually doesn't matter in most cases, but I know for a fact force is always in effect on both, it specifically states ethereal beings cant go through force effects. 5. * 6. * 7. * keep it humanoid only anyways 8+9. Yep, that's the way it is 10. If you hit... say i did 4 slashing, 4 lightning, and 1 magic with a +1 shocking longsword, but the target has slash resistance 5. The slashing damage goes away, but the lightning and magic stay, so I do 5 total damage. 11. Vicious is the weapon's dmg type, so it depends on if the golem is affected by that type. But, yes, unless otherwise stated. 12. * 13. If they're not immune then they're not immune. 14. Hmm, and interesting one. Your call, you're the DM. 15. * regardless of what the rules say, 3.5 rules for shapechanging are just fubar. Say one type of shapechange at a time, overlaps any others. In general, I'd say learn the first rule of DMing... when in doubt, say no to your players, and have a strong personality.
Dthamilaye 10-31-03, 02:30 AM	Originally posted by Bloodtide_the_Red 6) ... Oddly, you can only assume the form of a creature with the same type as your normal form...so if you were an outsider, then you could only assume outsider forms. I would not allow a lantern archon though, you can't go from physical to 'ball of light'..though by the rules there is no reson why you could not. Yep, I noticed it in Alter Self that outsiders must stay outsider. Thats why they became Water Genasi for underwater mission, rather than Merfolk or similar. Also, it says in the Alter Self that only natural flying is provided (like wings). I would assume Lantern Archon flying is nowhere near natural (even if it is (Ex)), ie, he doesn't fly with physical appendages. That means Alter Selfing to Lantern Archon would make you a globe of light that lays on the ground... 7)Fey'ri's do not have the alter self 'spell-like' ability. They can change their shape at will...but it's not connected to or taken from any spell. It also says 'humanoid forms', but not 'types'. They are using 'humanoid' as 'anything with two arms/legs and a head'. Note aslo Fey'ri are Native Outsiders. I remember a clause somewhere that Fey'Ri inherit the ability from Succubus. That is Polymorph but only to humanoid forms. I probably will keep it as Alter Self, but only to humanoid forms. Basing it on Alter Self is better than just having 'some way' to change forms. This way I have some rules to back on to. And Polymorph at will (even to humanoids) is right out :P. 15)Wild shape and polymorph don't realy stack well. You could wild shape into a Volodind and get the plant type. BUT then when you use the thousand faces 'alter self'...your type is plant. So you can only assume plant forms. Wild shape/polymorph changes your type. BT Hmmm... good point. Volodind and Mephit wouldn't stack then. :). Originally posted by PhaedrusXY ... I'd rather have the ability to use it as a disguise than be able to turn myself into a Lantern Archon, and I don't want to push it with his "good will". Yep, in fact, the Fey'Ri in my group has used and would still like to use his ability for mostly making himself to look like normal elf. I think it's bit odd that he cannot do that anymore in 3.5 :confused:. If I or he cannot find an elf looking outsider (max 5 HD), I think I let him look like elf still. I kinda didn't like the Alter Self change either. You don't really lose anything when you Alter Self, and you can gain quite much. Natural armour, wings, swim speed, burrowing, water breathing and such. At least with Polymorph, your physical stats change. Ie, with Alter Self, you can change into very low HD monsters without losing anything and gaining some nice abilities. Why wouldn't the Fey'Ri in question be an Air Mephit all the time? +4 natural and fly speed 60 (perfect). Same goes for the Druid, unless he goes to whack something with his scimitar.
Dthamilaye 10-31-03, 02:52 AM	Originally posted by He Who Shall Not Be Named 2. If there arent enough levels, I would say you cant turn it at all. Hmm, I think I'll go with the percentage thing with spell turning, as it says in the spell description that spells can be partly turned. But I think I take the 'No can do' -way with absorbing items. Ie, Rod of Absorbing and Ring of Absorbing (from remade Tomb of Horrors). You have to have enough spell levels to absorb it wholly, otherwise it won't work. 7. * keep it humanoid only anyways Yeah, I will. 11. Vicious is the weapon's dmg type, so it depends on if the golem is affected by that type. But, yes, unless otherwise stated. Thats what I thought... so Vicious in slashing weapon would not have worked against a half-clay golem. 15. * regardless of what the rules say, 3.5 rules for shapechanging are just fubar. Say one type of shapechange at a time, overlaps any others. This is probably good advice. At least I will use it with Polymorph, PO, Shapechange and Wildshape. Only thing I could mess with is Alter Self, but I have to take a look at it, how it works in the game. (For example, Druid changes to some lumbering mass of a plant, and wants to take some nicer form for a while without using his wildshape abilities, so he Alter Selfs to some easier plant form. This could be abusable, but it also is a power of the druid, so I have to check it out.) In general, I'd say learn the first rule of DMing... when in doubt, say no to your players, and have a strong personality. Well, as you can notice from the group make-up, we have bit more powergaming campaing than normal. Thats why the players are allowed to do things, but I still restrict totally broken combos and don't allow the game to go to Monty Haul. And I learn to put nasties against them. I just want to clear any questions that I ,or them, might get. Mostly it is quite clear, but with magic, there always appears some odd questions. I hope that after this campaign, I would know most of the answers :). Once again, Thank You all for the answers :).