Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thorak 10-14-03, 04:13 PM	Given the +10 enchantment limit on non-epic weapons, and the fact that in 3.5 at least, arrows fired from a bow take on the bow's effects, I had a disgusting thought. I'd already planned to make a halfling archer as my next char, thinking that essentially a halfling longbow is a normal shortbow for range and damage purposes (and might bug the DM into ignoring any difference if it comes to that) and the reduction from 1d8 to 1d6 doesn't seem to hurt too bad. Now, my thought was, since you can add new abilities to magical weapons, if I get a plain jane +x bow, what happens when I start adding bursts to it to improve my somewhat reduced damage? Eventually, I'll max the bow out, probably with Flaming/Icy/Shocking burst, and +4. (+2, +2, +2, +4 makes +10 total) If my DM actually switches over completely to 3.5, I can reduce that +4 to +1 and still have room for some more goodies, but lets just go with this for now (I just returned to D&D after a long hiatus, all my new group members have the 3.0 books, but I bought the new 3.5 PHB, not thinking it would be an issue. My DM kindly allows me to use anything from the new books that doesn't directly conflict with 3.0, so my current monk character uses the old Ki strike rules but everything else on him is 3.5, so the DM doesn't have to convert every monster to the new DR rules, at least in this campaign) So, flaming, icy, and shocking burst. That's +3d6 damage, 1d6 in each element, on each arrow, for a total (no strength or magical modifier included) 4d6 damage. That's pretty sick, but not the gross bit. Now, I take deepwood sniper eventually. Run it long enough to get at least the two improved critical abilities, making my small longbow do a crit on 19-20/x4. If I crit, I get the burst damage though, which is 3d10 for a x4 crit. But I get that three times. So, on a critical hit, my character will do (1d6x2)+3d6+9d10. On average, that's roughly 60 damage, with potential for much more (or much less, conversely) My question is, is this excessive? It seems like it to me, but I also really really like the idea of a tiny little speck of wild halfling packing a massive bloody punch with his little bow. Any thoughts? Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how this bow isn't legit, according to the SRD.
kreynolds 10-14-03, 04:32 PM	Originally posted by Thorak My question is, is this excessive? IME, no. Doesn't take much elemental resistance to defeat them. At the upper levels, the monsters seem to get tough enough to be able to deal with it. I've personally found flaming x4 to be uglier, but fun.
chonjurer 10-14-03, 04:39 PM	Burst sucks. I'm working on some numerical analysis to nail the lid in its coffin, but for right now just take my word that it's generally a horrible enchantment. It might occasionally pay off, but that doesn't make it worth it.
bitnine 10-14-03, 04:47 PM	Originally posted by chonjurer Burst sucks. I'm working on some numerical analysis to nail the lid in its coffin, but for right now just take my word that it's generally a horrible enchantment. I might occasionally pay off, but that doesn't make it worth it. Are you trying to tell me that two forms of energy, always dealing 2d6 are numerically superior to a single burst enchantment? Actually, yeah, I wouldn't be too shocked by that.
Zherog 10-14-03, 05:33 PM	I'm far from the math expert that chonjurer is, but I would think burst becomes more worthwhile the larger your critical multiplier is, in conjunction with your threat range. For example, a longbow has a fairly nice multiplier (x3) but a lousy range (20). This means you only threaten a critical 5% of the time, and not all of those threats will be actual criticals. So you are paying an extra +1 to get an ability you will use less than 5% of the time. Now, when it does kick in, it'll add an extra 2d10 damage on top of what you are already doing. I'm curious to see the analysis when you're done, chonj. I have an archer with a threat range of 18-20 (Improved Critical feat and the Keen Arrows ability (this is a 3.0 game)) as well as a X4 multiplier (thanks to his levels in Deepwood Sniper). I've always felt getting Icy Burst would be worth the cost. But perhaps I should invest that money elsewhere....
RhoPhiGamma 10-15-03, 07:53 AM	Originally posted by Zherog For example, a longbow has a fairly nice multiplier (x3) but a lousy range (20). This means you only threaten a critical 5% of the time, and not all of those threats will be actual criticals. So you are paying an extra +1 to get an ability you will use less than 5% of the time. Now, when it does kick in, it'll add an extra 2d10 damage on top of what you are already doing. [Energy] Bursting weapons act like their +1 [Energy] couterparts with the addition of causing extra [Energy] damage, as well as the extra 1d6 from it's type, on a critical hit. FREX: A Flaming Burst Longsword Causes 1d8+1d6 [Fire] on a normal hit. On a critical hit, it causes 2d8+1d6 [Fire]+1d10 [Fire]. The only thing that isn't so great about bursting weapons is that the extra damage is determined by the weapon's critical multiplier. If the damage was a fixed value for all types, say an extra 1d20 on top of the normal extra 1d6, it would be more worth the extra +1.
epchristi 10-24-03, 05:34 PM	I did this analysis on the Character Optimization board.. some good thoughts came along with it. Check out this threadd: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104085