Buying feats!!!!????? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Buying feats!!!!????? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Azerith24
04-11-07, 12:58 AM This idea i had a while ago, and ive been thinking about different ways to do it?

I thought that replacing a +5 ability book with a book for a feat would be reasonable enough but thats 300+k and my players think that is way too high given that you can purchase certain abilties as feats on magic items/weapons for relatively cheap. Anyone have any ideas? Or does something like this already exist.
Thomar_of_Uointer
04-11-07, 01:13 AM No pricing guidelines exist for feats. Slotless magic items that grant feats are totally legit (i.e., tattoos, ioun stones), you just have to figure out your own pricing for them.

What did you have in mind?
Lafing Cat
04-11-07, 01:45 AM This idea i had a while ago, and ive been thinking about different ways to do it?

I thought that replacing a +5 ability book with a book for a feat would be reasonable enough but thats 300+k and my players think that is way too high given that you can purchase certain abilties as feats on magic items/weapons for relatively cheap. Anyone have any ideas? Or does something like this already exist.

Well, first of all a +5 book is 140k

If you use the page 19 rules (I.e. losing PrC pre-reqs causes you to lose access to the PrC abilities) I would be very wary about allowing PCs to permanently gain feats.

If you don't use the page 19 rules, I would think that ~30-60k would be appropriate for a book of feat (approximately the price of a +1 or +2 book) depending on the feat in question. I'd also cap the number of feats that could be gained this way (probably at 3)
Azerith24
04-11-07, 03:33 AM well, the way i had imagined it was that it replaced the use of the ability score enhancement book.

so if price matched that of a +5 and you got six feats through this method you couldnt ever enhance them.

or a wish might be able to do it
Yokomohoyo
04-11-07, 03:34 AM Check out the Complete Scoundral. It has a few quests that grant feats at the end. It also has a stated GP price for the feats saying that it has a price of about 100k-300k (depending on the feat that is granted).
groveborn
04-11-07, 04:36 AM I've considered this very thing while a player. I've priced a slotted item at around 5k for ordinary things, but that's just what I've seen with existing items. Some feats are far more useful than others. Some are useful only in certain circumstances. I would suggest looking at each on a case by case basis, and keep in mind that a spell caster has to create these items, and typically doesn't have every feat imaginable. I'd create a list of about 5 total.

Rather than allowing just anything to be purchased, I'd also suggest allowing, as was previously mentioned, quests, or some equivalent task to gain a feat. Perhaps the nature of an adventure creates a demand for a particular feat, but nobody has it, thus opening it up as a DM bonus feat or some such. Some folks would suggest giving a proficiency to someone who commonly uses a weapon that they are not proficient in, after a few levels for instance.

In fact, weapons that grant proficiency with them would be a wonderful thing. Say a +1, or even a monetary enhancement?
Azerith24
04-11-07, 04:55 AM Check out the Complete Scoundral. It has a few quests that grant feats at the end. It also has a stated GP price for the feats saying that it has a price of about 100k-300k (depending on the feat that is granted).

are you sure its the complete scoundrel, i looked for a while and couldnt find it.
Yokomohoyo
04-11-07, 07:08 AM are you sure its the complete scoundrel, i looked for a while and couldnt find it.

The last pages where their is the armadillo shell quest and what not are some other quests that grant feats. Also in complete mage and arcane their are quests like bigbby's tomb (spell check) that grant extra spell feat and what not.
ZocckCastlestorm
04-11-07, 07:53 AM There is an example of a Feat-Granting Item in the DMG, but it is not Permanent, but rather, a Continuous Effect Item: The Ioun Stone(Alertness).
Just a starting point to look at, then you can try to figure out the cost of making such an effect Permanent.
Archangel62
04-11-07, 08:31 AM I had a feat on Redgars that had my feat training rules I use in my games, I'll check the archives for them.

And here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=697240) it is
katarl
04-11-07, 10:41 AM Arms and equipment guide has rules for magic items granting feats, they cost 10k, plus another 10k for each prerequisite that feat has. Since you're taking it permanently, you could consider yourself a 'slotless magic item', and feats would cost you 20k, plus another 20k for prereqs each.

I'd say that verifies the 1 wish (25k cost) = 1 feat idea. I'd put a limit in, though on the number, and you have to take or wish for any prerequisite feats you don't possess before getting it.
jameswilliamogle
04-11-07, 10:44 AM A lot of feats can be bought as slotted magic items for around 10k gp. Then, the Magic Item Compendium has different costs for different feats (all slotted again). Class abilities sometimes can be bought too, and the prices vary a lot (though between 5k and 20k, normally).

It depends on the feat you want to make, I think. Making it cost the same as a +5 tome is a bit much, imo. A character would get +5 stats in 20 levels, and in the same time a non-human, non-fighter would get 7 feats. Making it 50-80k might be more reasonable, as a permanent bonus (and I'm leaning towards 50k).
Marendithas_the_Necro
04-11-07, 10:45 AM In the DMG, they say that to train for one ranks of skill is 50gp and so on and it takes 1 week

For the feat, it takes 100gp and I think 2 weeks or 1 week

If you don't believe me, search in the DMG! :D
Thomar_of_Uointer
04-11-07, 11:19 AM In the DMG, they say that to train for one ranks of skill is 50gp and so on and it takes 1 week

For the feat, it takes 100gp and I think 2 weeks or 1 week

If you don't believe me, search in the DMG! :D

I believe you, but I also believe you have no idea what you're talking about. That's only for the "you have to train to level up" variant.
Dheran
04-11-07, 12:47 PM Since you're taking it permanently, you could consider yourself a 'slotless magic item', and feats would cost you 20k, plus another 20k for prereqs each. There's a big difference, though: a slotless magic item can be stolen, temporarily disabled (Antimagic Field), or destroyed. If you remove these vulnerabilities you're greatly increasing the power of such an "item".
Azerith24
04-11-07, 02:36 PM I really like the idea of 20k for each feat and an additional 20k for the prereqs, but maybe and an additional 10k for each of the prereqs. They would count as slotless "items" but its basically getting spells made permenant. what do you think?
SpoonyBard
04-11-07, 04:50 PM Okay, so here's an example... How much for a wondrous item of Multiattack? Slotted? Unslotted? How much for an instantaneous learning of Multiattack?

Are there spell effects to replicate something? Consider the benefits of Skill Focus (Jump) when compared to the Ring of Jumping when. Then compare to the stupid overcosted Dark Blue Ioun Stone.

...Seriously though, what WOULD multiattack cost?
katarl
04-12-07, 11:56 AM There's a big difference, though: a slotless magic item can be stolen, temporarily disabled (Antimagic Field), or destroyed. If you remove these vulnerabilities you're greatly increasing the power of such an "item".
The difference between a slotless magic item, and a permanent one are, that permanent items cannot be moved. Like you said, this is a big benefit, however, balancing this is the fact that it cannot be sold, does not class as treasure (for monsters) and cannot be passed from one PC onto another. I quote grafts as evidence that this system works, when grafting, it costs 16000gp to gain +2 natural armour, thats 2x2x2000, multiplied again by 2 because its slotless.

Basically, the idea is, wish= 1 feat that you have the prerequisites for. Thats 25 grand, for any feat (even multiattack), but only if you already fulfill the prereqs. Also, you can only ever recieve 5 bonus feats this way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Azerith24 04-11-07, 12:58 AM	This idea i had a while ago, and ive been thinking about different ways to do it? I thought that replacing a +5 ability book with a book for a feat would be reasonable enough but thats 300+k and my players think that is way too high given that you can purchase certain abilties as feats on magic items/weapons for relatively cheap. Anyone have any ideas? Or does something like this already exist.
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-11-07, 01:13 AM	No pricing guidelines exist for feats. Slotless magic items that grant feats are totally legit (i.e., tattoos, ioun stones), you just have to figure out your own pricing for them. What did you have in mind?
Lafing Cat 04-11-07, 01:45 AM	This idea i had a while ago, and ive been thinking about different ways to do it? I thought that replacing a +5 ability book with a book for a feat would be reasonable enough but thats 300+k and my players think that is way too high given that you can purchase certain abilties as feats on magic items/weapons for relatively cheap. Anyone have any ideas? Or does something like this already exist. Well, first of all a +5 book is 140k If you use the page 19 rules (I.e. losing PrC pre-reqs causes you to lose access to the PrC abilities) I would be very wary about allowing PCs to permanently gain feats. If you don't use the page 19 rules, I would think that ~30-60k would be appropriate for a book of feat (approximately the price of a +1 or +2 book) depending on the feat in question. I'd also cap the number of feats that could be gained this way (probably at 3)
Azerith24 04-11-07, 03:33 AM	well, the way i had imagined it was that it replaced the use of the ability score enhancement book. so if price matched that of a +5 and you got six feats through this method you couldnt ever enhance them. or a wish might be able to do it
Yokomohoyo 04-11-07, 03:34 AM	Check out the Complete Scoundral. It has a few quests that grant feats at the end. It also has a stated GP price for the feats saying that it has a price of about 100k-300k (depending on the feat that is granted).
groveborn 04-11-07, 04:36 AM	I've considered this very thing while a player. I've priced a slotted item at around 5k for ordinary things, but that's just what I've seen with existing items. Some feats are far more useful than others. Some are useful only in certain circumstances. I would suggest looking at each on a case by case basis, and keep in mind that a spell caster has to create these items, and typically doesn't have every feat imaginable. I'd create a list of about 5 total. Rather than allowing just anything to be purchased, I'd also suggest allowing, as was previously mentioned, quests, or some equivalent task to gain a feat. Perhaps the nature of an adventure creates a demand for a particular feat, but nobody has it, thus opening it up as a DM bonus feat or some such. Some folks would suggest giving a proficiency to someone who commonly uses a weapon that they are not proficient in, after a few levels for instance. In fact, weapons that grant proficiency with them would be a wonderful thing. Say a +1, or even a monetary enhancement?
Azerith24 04-11-07, 04:55 AM	Check out the Complete Scoundral. It has a few quests that grant feats at the end. It also has a stated GP price for the feats saying that it has a price of about 100k-300k (depending on the feat that is granted). are you sure its the complete scoundrel, i looked for a while and couldnt find it.
Yokomohoyo 04-11-07, 07:08 AM	are you sure its the complete scoundrel, i looked for a while and couldnt find it. The last pages where their is the armadillo shell quest and what not are some other quests that grant feats. Also in complete mage and arcane their are quests like bigbby's tomb (spell check) that grant extra spell feat and what not.
ZocckCastlestorm 04-11-07, 07:53 AM	There is an example of a Feat-Granting Item in the DMG, but it is not Permanent, but rather, a Continuous Effect Item: The Ioun Stone(Alertness). Just a starting point to look at, then you can try to figure out the cost of making such an effect Permanent.
Archangel62 04-11-07, 08:31 AM	I had a feat on Redgars that had my feat training rules I use in my games, I'll check the archives for them. And here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=697240) it is
katarl 04-11-07, 10:41 AM	Arms and equipment guide has rules for magic items granting feats, they cost 10k, plus another 10k for each prerequisite that feat has. Since you're taking it permanently, you could consider yourself a 'slotless magic item', and feats would cost you 20k, plus another 20k for prereqs each. I'd say that verifies the 1 wish (25k cost) = 1 feat idea. I'd put a limit in, though on the number, and you have to take or wish for any prerequisite feats you don't possess before getting it.
jameswilliamogle 04-11-07, 10:44 AM	A lot of feats can be bought as slotted magic items for around 10k gp. Then, the Magic Item Compendium has different costs for different feats (all slotted again). Class abilities sometimes can be bought too, and the prices vary a lot (though between 5k and 20k, normally). It depends on the feat you want to make, I think. Making it cost the same as a +5 tome is a bit much, imo. A character would get +5 stats in 20 levels, and in the same time a non-human, non-fighter would get 7 feats. Making it 50-80k might be more reasonable, as a permanent bonus (and I'm leaning towards 50k).
Marendithas_the_Necro 04-11-07, 10:45 AM	In the DMG, they say that to train for one ranks of skill is 50gp and so on and it takes 1 week For the feat, it takes 100gp and I think 2 weeks or 1 week If you don't believe me, search in the DMG! :D
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-11-07, 11:19 AM	In the DMG, they say that to train for one ranks of skill is 50gp and so on and it takes 1 week For the feat, it takes 100gp and I think 2 weeks or 1 week If you don't believe me, search in the DMG! :D I believe you, but I also believe you have no idea what you're talking about. That's only for the "you have to train to level up" variant.
Dheran 04-11-07, 12:47 PM	Since you're taking it permanently, you could consider yourself a 'slotless magic item', and feats would cost you 20k, plus another 20k for prereqs each. There's a big difference, though: a slotless magic item can be stolen, temporarily disabled (Antimagic Field), or destroyed. If you remove these vulnerabilities you're greatly increasing the power of such an "item".
Azerith24 04-11-07, 02:36 PM	I really like the idea of 20k for each feat and an additional 20k for the prereqs, but maybe and an additional 10k for each of the prereqs. They would count as slotless "items" but its basically getting spells made permenant. what do you think?
SpoonyBard 04-11-07, 04:50 PM	Okay, so here's an example... How much for a wondrous item of Multiattack? Slotted? Unslotted? How much for an instantaneous learning of Multiattack? Are there spell effects to replicate something? Consider the benefits of Skill Focus (Jump) when compared to the Ring of Jumping when. Then compare to the stupid overcosted Dark Blue Ioun Stone. ...Seriously though, what WOULD multiattack cost?
katarl 04-12-07, 11:56 AM	There's a big difference, though: a slotless magic item can be stolen, temporarily disabled (Antimagic Field), or destroyed. If you remove these vulnerabilities you're greatly increasing the power of such an "item". The difference between a slotless magic item, and a permanent one are, that permanent items cannot be moved. Like you said, this is a big benefit, however, balancing this is the fact that it cannot be sold, does not class as treasure (for monsters) and cannot be passed from one PC onto another. I quote grafts as evidence that this system works, when grafting, it costs 16000gp to gain +2 natural armour, thats 2x2x2000, multiplied again by 2 because its slotless. Basically, the idea is, wish= 1 feat that you have the prerequisites for. Thats 25 grand, for any feat (even multiattack), but only if you already fulfill the prereqs. Also, you can only ever recieve 5 bonus feats this way.