called creatures and equipment [Archive] - Wizards Community

called creatures and equipment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mirror-Image
08-18-06, 07:09 AM If you call a creature (outsider) it can die and will not return to its homplane. So i would assume that the equipment will stay with the corpse too. If you take a look at the Kelvezu (MMII page 60) it uses a +1 grater wounding scimitar. This would lead to a nice money making combo:
You use planar binding (6th grade) to call a Kelvezu then kill him, which will give you his weapon which is worth 50.000 GP.
A scroll of planar binding will cost a mere 1650 GP with 35% of success due to the will save they can make to resist the spell. So if you have the money to buy about 6 scrolls [9900] and use dimensional ancor you have a chance of 89.4% to gain 25.000 GP or more.
This assums that you can kill the Kelezu and find someone who will buy the weapon at half the market price.

I think this is a nice way to get money.
So you see any flaws in this strategy ?
risner
08-18-06, 08:42 AM Not in most reasonable DM's worlds.
The equipment would become worthless at the least.
The corpse might even poof.
Seeker95
08-18-06, 09:27 AM Although a +1 greater wounding scimitar is included in the description, it is not a requirement. I would simply rule that the weapon did not get called with the creature if I as DM knew the intentions of the player.

If allowing it (once or twice), I would also let word get out that the caster does this, making him/her a marked target. This could be a decent plot twist as the caster is hauled into some inter-planar court for crimes against the called. Punishments could include a fine equal in value to the stolen equipment, or even an outright ban on the caster -- no more calling allowed. Either of these two punishments could then lead to another adventure as the caster seeks the means to pay the fine or the means to remove the restriction.
tarkin
08-18-06, 10:58 AM If a creature has a weapon as part of an ability, I will usually rule that their real ability is to temporarily create and maintain such a weapon at will as a free action.
sorites
08-18-06, 10:58 AM Sounds pretty bulletproof to me, except you need to use greater planar binding to call a Kelvezu since it is a 18 HD creature. [My MMII is apparently 3.0, so I don't know if the monster stats have changed.]

Of course, your plan brings with it the normal risks of using Planar Binding. The Kelvezu is quite powerful, so killing it would be difficult, especially since it can just teleport away if the battle is going poorly for it.

It may also be worth mentioning that calling a Kelvezu would be an [evil] spell. As a wizard, you are not restricted from casting such spells, but if you are good, your DM may determine that over time, multiple castings of [evil] spells alters your alignment (to neutral, for example).

By the RAW, though, your plan definitely sounds do-able. The creature and its equipment would not disappear when it dies. If the creature arrived without its magic scimitar, I would expect it to have comparable equipment. I'd also agree that performing this trick multiple times *might* be noticed by other tanar'ri and you could conceivably incur their enmity.
ronyon
08-18-06, 11:25 AM I like tarkins plan best.
Its goofy for all these planar beesties to come equipt any way.
I would even go so far as to say they temporarily grant said abilities to a mundane weapon.
Id also give the PC a chance to know this ahead of time via Know: Planes or something.
If he finds out the hard way, Id encourage him to write it down as part of creating a tome on Calling or Magic in general.Knowldge has a GP value all its own.
Mirror-Image
08-20-06, 02:33 PM i understand that this is something a DM would not want to happen because it disturbs the economy but ruling that it other will know that the character does this it heavy metagame. How would someone know of it ? Normaly you summon a creature to do a dangerous task. It might die ... nothing happens if you call a 100 creatures and they die does it ? Why should someting happen it you call 3-4 creatures and they die too [but this time you dont let their equipment rott but take it with you]. By the way there is no wittness who can tell about you doing this cause the summoned creature dies and will not return to its homeplane.

Do you still think it is REASONABLE to say that this will get known ?
Seeker95
08-20-06, 09:10 PM Do you still think it is REASONABLE to say that this will get known ?Yes. The creatures you are calling are extra-planar. They plane hop as a matter of normal business. And they are quite used to returning. It doesn't take a whole heckuva lot of divination to find the body, ask it some questions, and track you down.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mirror-Image 08-18-06, 07:09 AM	If you call a creature (outsider) it can die and will not return to its homplane. So i would assume that the equipment will stay with the corpse too. If you take a look at the Kelvezu (MMII page 60) it uses a +1 grater wounding scimitar. This would lead to a nice money making combo: You use planar binding (6th grade) to call a Kelvezu then kill him, which will give you his weapon which is worth 50.000 GP. A scroll of planar binding will cost a mere 1650 GP with 35% of success due to the will save they can make to resist the spell. So if you have the money to buy about 6 scrolls [9900] and use dimensional ancor you have a chance of 89.4% to gain 25.000 GP or more. This assums that you can kill the Kelezu and find someone who will buy the weapon at half the market price. I think this is a nice way to get money. So you see any flaws in this strategy ?
risner 08-18-06, 08:42 AM	Not in most reasonable DM's worlds. The equipment would become worthless at the least. The corpse might even poof.
Seeker95 08-18-06, 09:27 AM	Although a +1 greater wounding scimitar is included in the description, it is not a requirement. I would simply rule that the weapon did not get called with the creature if I as DM knew the intentions of the player. If allowing it (once or twice), I would also let word get out that the caster does this, making him/her a marked target. This could be a decent plot twist as the caster is hauled into some inter-planar court for crimes against the called. Punishments could include a fine equal in value to the stolen equipment, or even an outright ban on the caster -- no more calling allowed. Either of these two punishments could then lead to another adventure as the caster seeks the means to pay the fine or the means to remove the restriction.
tarkin 08-18-06, 10:58 AM	If a creature has a weapon as part of an ability, I will usually rule that their real ability is to temporarily create and maintain such a weapon at will as a free action.
sorites 08-18-06, 10:58 AM	Sounds pretty bulletproof to me, except you need to use greater planar binding to call a Kelvezu since it is a 18 HD creature. [My MMII is apparently 3.0, so I don't know if the monster stats have changed.] Of course, your plan brings with it the normal risks of using Planar Binding. The Kelvezu is quite powerful, so killing it would be difficult, especially since it can just teleport away if the battle is going poorly for it. It may also be worth mentioning that calling a Kelvezu would be an [evil] spell. As a wizard, you are not restricted from casting such spells, but if you are good, your DM may determine that over time, multiple castings of [evil] spells alters your alignment (to neutral, for example). By the RAW, though, your plan definitely sounds do-able. The creature and its equipment would not disappear when it dies. If the creature arrived without its magic scimitar, I would expect it to have comparable equipment. I'd also agree that performing this trick multiple times might be noticed by other tanar'ri and you could conceivably incur their enmity.
ronyon 08-18-06, 11:25 AM	I like tarkins plan best. Its goofy for all these planar beesties to come equipt any way. I would even go so far as to say they temporarily grant said abilities to a mundane weapon. Id also give the PC a chance to know this ahead of time via Know: Planes or something. If he finds out the hard way, Id encourage him to write it down as part of creating a tome on Calling or Magic in general.Knowldge has a GP value all its own.
Mirror-Image 08-20-06, 02:33 PM	i understand that this is something a DM would not want to happen because it disturbs the economy but ruling that it other will know that the character does this it heavy metagame. How would someone know of it ? Normaly you summon a creature to do a dangerous task. It might die ... nothing happens if you call a 100 creatures and they die does it ? Why should someting happen it you call 3-4 creatures and they die too [but this time you dont let their equipment rott but take it with you]. By the way there is no wittness who can tell about you doing this cause the summoned creature dies and will not return to its homeplane. Do you still think it is REASONABLE to say that this will get known ?
Seeker95 08-20-06, 09:10 PM	Do you still think it is REASONABLE to say that this will get known ?Yes. The creatures you are calling are extra-planar. They plane hop as a matter of normal business. And they are quite used to returning. It doesn't take a whole heckuva lot of divination to find the body, ask it some questions, and track you down.