Can a Caster be damaged by his own spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can a Caster be damaged by his own spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TaintedSoulBrokenHeart
11-25-06, 03:45 PM I say yes, my DM says no...now while this may seem awesome...it is not, because it has led one of the PC's to completely abuse his area spells...and the difference of opinions has lead to several arguments on the part of the DM and several other players...so in the guise of ending the fiasco...how does it work...in the books?
Loki5654
11-25-06, 03:49 PM Unless the spell description specifically says so, a caster can be harmed by his own spells.

If he is in the radius of his own fireball, for example, then he takes damage normally. If he targets himself with his own magic missiles, then he better be ready to roll those d4's.
Incognito2me
11-25-06, 03:53 PM Loki beat me to it. It's like throwing a grenade in real life. Just because you threw it doesn't mean that you can't be hurt by it. Or even if you made it. :P
Seeker95
11-25-06, 04:17 PM Can a Caster be damaged by his own spells?Yes. :angel:
leather_book_wizard
11-25-06, 04:48 PM Loki beat me to it. It's like throwing a grenade in real life. Just because you threw it doesn't mean that you can't be hurt by it. Or even if you made it. :P

You get a cookie:cookie:
Salla
11-25-06, 04:59 PM It may (or may not) bear mentioning that the 'caster in question still gets all available defenses against his own spells. For example, against his own Fireball, he still gets a Reflex save and any Fire Resistance or Spell Resistance he has applies.

I once had a party of Drow Wiz/Rogues throwing fireballs around left, right, up and down. It was kinda brutal; if they actually bypassed one another's SR, evasion would kick in!
Incognito2me
11-25-06, 05:02 PM You get a cookie:cookie:

*munch* ^^

And sometimes I feel that casters should get some form of bonus (or penalty) from their spells. Bonus coming from knowing what's coming, knowing what the spell does, how to avoid it e.t.c Or penalty coming from the fact you're pointing at yourself (for targetted spells)
TaintedSoulBrokenHeart
11-25-06, 08:22 PM See that is what I thought...I know what happens if I drop the grenade beside me...so...thank...does anyone know where I can find that in the books?
runestar
11-25-06, 09:41 PM so...thank...does anyone know where I can find that in the books?
I am not sure if it is explicitly addressed anywhere - this seems one of those commonsensical stuff that needs no clarification...no offense meant.:)
Karak_Nechot
11-25-06, 09:52 PM I doubt it is expressively written the books, but this might help.

Area
Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below.

Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection.

You can count diagonally across a square, but remember that every second diagonal counts as 2 squares of distance. If the far edge of a square is within the spell’s area, anything within that square is within the spell’s area. If the spell’s area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell.

That's about the closest direct statement to this that I know of. All creatures in the area that qualify are affected by a spell, and that does include the caster.

There's a few spells, like fireburst exlpicitly say that you do not take damage from your own spells. This should leave most people to assume that you normally do take damage from your own spells.
Millennium
11-25-06, 11:39 PM Under normal circumstances, yes: you can be damaged by your own spells.

There are some feats and class abilities that let you open "holes" in your own spells' areas of effect, such that people in those holes take no damage. If you have one of these feats or abilities, you can open a hole for yourself and avoid damage that way, though this will also keep anyone else in your square (Tiny creatures, for example, or creatures that are grappling you) from taking damage.
Tenebrous_Sage
11-26-06, 12:31 AM Millennium beat me to it. Sculpt Spell, Extraordinary Spell Aim, and Mastery of Shaping are some of the most common methods of excluding people from the area of a spell.
Nom
11-26-06, 04:36 AM Remember that spell resistance generally doesn't apply to your own spells, either.
Tenebrous_Sage
11-26-06, 05:01 AM It does if the spell allows spell resistance; however, a character can choose to voluntarily lower his spell resistance as a standard action.
Edymnion
11-26-06, 05:30 AM And sometimes I feel that casters should get some form of bonus (or penalty) from their spells. Bonus coming from knowing what's coming, knowing what the spell does, how to avoid it e.t.c Or penalty coming from the fact you're pointing at yourself (for targetted spells)
See that is what I thought...I know what happens if I drop the grenade beside me...so...thank...does anyone know where I can find that in the books?Just because you know where the grenade is and how many seconds are left on the fuse doesn't make dodging the blast any easier. The guy you throw it at most likely saw you pull the pin, and saw where the grenaded landed (at his feet), and as such has just as much information about the blast as you do, but that doesn't give him any bonuses.

The only defense is to get out of range. If you're in the blast radius, you're going to take damage, reguardless of if you saw it coming or not.
DarkRhystar
11-26-06, 11:51 AM The only defense is to get out of range. If you're in the blast radius, you're going to take damage, reguardless of if you saw it coming or not.

Unless you have Evasion. :D
Greggoman
11-26-06, 12:07 PM Unless the spell description specifically says so, a caster can be harmed by his own spells.

If he is in the radius of his own fireball, for example, then he takes damage normally. If he targets himself with his own magic missiles, then he better be ready to roll those d4's.

If you miscast, can you be hurt?
Kyuketsukiouji
11-26-06, 12:47 PM You can't "miscast" in D&D. Either the spell goes off, or it doesn't.

The only "miscast" is when you flub trying to use a scroll you're not normally able to.
Tenebrous_Sage
11-26-06, 12:51 PM Miscast? You either cast the spell or you don't; there's no miscasting rules (except for scrolls).
Neutronium_Dragon
11-26-06, 01:21 PM Unless by "miscast" you mean "fail a Concentration check and lose the spell". In that case, no. Your spell simply fails and nothing happens. (Although you still use up the slot you were using to cast it.)
Witchcraft
11-26-06, 01:28 PM A Recaster (a very good PrC) can change his spell areas.
Nom
11-26-06, 03:13 PM It does if the spell allows spell resistance;DMG pg 298: "A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items or abilities."
Catra
11-26-06, 06:18 PM I'm not sure that was a reference to shooting yourself with your own spells. I think by "interfere," it means messing up spells you cast at someone else. It also means, as I understand, that magical items you wear aren't annulled by your own SR. I'm pretty sure you even have to lower your SR to heal yourself (unless it's a potion).

I'm not sure about stabbing yourself with a magical weapon, though.
Sphyre
11-26-06, 06:46 PM I'm not sure that was a reference to shooting yourself with your own spells. I think by "interfere," it means messing up spells you cast at someone else. It also means, as I understand, that magical items you wear aren't annulled by your own SR. I'm pretty sure you even have to lower your SR to heal yourself (unless it's a potion).

Spell Resistance never interferes with your own spells. This means if you have spell resistance, you can cast fly on yourself without needing to make a caster level check, or spending the standard action to lower your spell resistance.

This means you can cast cure light wounds on yourself from a wand without making a caster level check to break spell resistance, or having to spend a standard action to lower your spell resistance.

This means you can activate boots of speed without problem.

This also means, that if you cast a fireball centered 5 feet in front of you, your fireball ignores your spell resistance too. Those who play with fire get burned ya know ;)
TaintedSoulBrokenHeart
11-26-06, 07:05 PM Thanks again everyone...I now have several opinions to show my DM...and like I said before...I always thought I could be scorched by my own fireball.
GalaGalaxia
11-26-06, 07:15 PM DMG pg 298: "A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items or abilities."

That's about outgoing spells. If you target yourself with a spell (or are within the spell's area of effect) SR still applies. So, you are right -- spell resistance never interferes with the spell, but you can still benefit from it against the spell's effect.
Nom
11-26-06, 09:49 PM Ah, so if you cast cure light wounds on yourself, the spell works, but the effect (healing) is suppressed by your spell resistance? Are you sure that particular inane distinction was what the rules meant?
KingSpoom
11-26-06, 10:26 PM No miscast? ... isn't that what arcane spell failure from armor is? Isn't that what being blind or deaf and casting a spell is?
Salla
11-26-06, 10:52 PM No miscast? ... isn't that what arcane spell failure from armor is? Isn't that what being blind or deaf and casting a spell is?

If you blow the ASF check, the spell simply fizzles and nothing happens; it isn't 'miscast' in the mold of 'going off in your face' or 'magical backlash' or 'wild surge' or anything of that sort.

You can try to cast a spell while blind or deaf; blindness makes aiming problematic, and you have a 20% chance of failure (again, just failure; no weird side effects) when using verbal components.
GalaGalaxia
11-26-06, 10:55 PM Ah, so if you cast cure light wounds on yourself, the spell works, but the effect (healing) is suppressed by your spell resistance? Are you sure that particular inane distinction was what the rules meant?

Hmm ...
In other words -- whether SR applies or not, it has the possibility of sucking real bad :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TaintedSoulBrokenHeart 11-25-06, 03:45 PM	I say yes, my DM says no...now while this may seem awesome...it is not, because it has led one of the PC's to completely abuse his area spells...and the difference of opinions has lead to several arguments on the part of the DM and several other players...so in the guise of ending the fiasco...how does it work...in the books?
Loki5654 11-25-06, 03:49 PM	Unless the spell description specifically says so, a caster can be harmed by his own spells. If he is in the radius of his own fireball, for example, then he takes damage normally. If he targets himself with his own magic missiles, then he better be ready to roll those d4's.
Incognito2me 11-25-06, 03:53 PM	Loki beat me to it. It's like throwing a grenade in real life. Just because you threw it doesn't mean that you can't be hurt by it. Or even if you made it. :P
Seeker95 11-25-06, 04:17 PM	Can a Caster be damaged by his own spells?Yes. :angel:
leather_book_wizard 11-25-06, 04:48 PM	Loki beat me to it. It's like throwing a grenade in real life. Just because you threw it doesn't mean that you can't be hurt by it. Or even if you made it. :P You get a cookie:cookie:
Salla 11-25-06, 04:59 PM	It may (or may not) bear mentioning that the 'caster in question still gets all available defenses against his own spells. For example, against his own Fireball, he still gets a Reflex save and any Fire Resistance or Spell Resistance he has applies. I once had a party of Drow Wiz/Rogues throwing fireballs around left, right, up and down. It was kinda brutal; if they actually bypassed one another's SR, evasion would kick in!
Incognito2me 11-25-06, 05:02 PM	You get a cookie:cookie: munch ^^ And sometimes I feel that casters should get some form of bonus (or penalty) from their spells. Bonus coming from knowing what's coming, knowing what the spell does, how to avoid it e.t.c Or penalty coming from the fact you're pointing at yourself (for targetted spells)
TaintedSoulBrokenHeart 11-25-06, 08:22 PM	See that is what I thought...I know what happens if I drop the grenade beside me...so...thank...does anyone know where I can find that in the books?
runestar 11-25-06, 09:41 PM	so...thank...does anyone know where I can find that in the books? I am not sure if it is explicitly addressed anywhere - this seems one of those commonsensical stuff that needs no clarification...no offense meant.:)
Karak_Nechot 11-25-06, 09:52 PM	I doubt it is expressively written the books, but this might help. Area Some spells affect an area. Sometimes a spell description specifies a specially defined area, but usually an area falls into one of the categories defined below. Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection. You can count diagonally across a square, but remember that every second diagonal counts as 2 squares of distance. If the far edge of a square is within the spell’s area, anything within that square is within the spell’s area. If the spell’s area only touches the near edge of a square, however, anything within that square is unaffected by the spell. That's about the closest direct statement to this that I know of. All creatures in the area that qualify are affected by a spell, and that does include the caster. There's a few spells, like fireburst exlpicitly say that you do not take damage from your own spells. This should leave most people to assume that you normally do take damage from your own spells.
Millennium 11-25-06, 11:39 PM	Under normal circumstances, yes: you can be damaged by your own spells. There are some feats and class abilities that let you open "holes" in your own spells' areas of effect, such that people in those holes take no damage. If you have one of these feats or abilities, you can open a hole for yourself and avoid damage that way, though this will also keep anyone else in your square (Tiny creatures, for example, or creatures that are grappling you) from taking damage.
Tenebrous_Sage 11-26-06, 12:31 AM	Millennium beat me to it. Sculpt Spell, Extraordinary Spell Aim, and Mastery of Shaping are some of the most common methods of excluding people from the area of a spell.
Nom 11-26-06, 04:36 AM	Remember that spell resistance generally doesn't apply to your own spells, either.
Tenebrous_Sage 11-26-06, 05:01 AM	It does if the spell allows spell resistance; however, a character can choose to voluntarily lower his spell resistance as a standard action.
Edymnion 11-26-06, 05:30 AM	And sometimes I feel that casters should get some form of bonus (or penalty) from their spells. Bonus coming from knowing what's coming, knowing what the spell does, how to avoid it e.t.c Or penalty coming from the fact you're pointing at yourself (for targetted spells) See that is what I thought...I know what happens if I drop the grenade beside me...so...thank...does anyone know where I can find that in the books?Just because you know where the grenade is and how many seconds are left on the fuse doesn't make dodging the blast any easier. The guy you throw it at most likely saw you pull the pin, and saw where the grenaded landed (at his feet), and as such has just as much information about the blast as you do, but that doesn't give him any bonuses. The only defense is to get out of range. If you're in the blast radius, you're going to take damage, reguardless of if you saw it coming or not.
DarkRhystar 11-26-06, 11:51 AM	The only defense is to get out of range. If you're in the blast radius, you're going to take damage, reguardless of if you saw it coming or not. Unless you have Evasion. :D
Greggoman 11-26-06, 12:07 PM	Unless the spell description specifically says so, a caster can be harmed by his own spells. If he is in the radius of his own fireball, for example, then he takes damage normally. If he targets himself with his own magic missiles, then he better be ready to roll those d4's. If you miscast, can you be hurt?
Kyuketsukiouji 11-26-06, 12:47 PM	You can't "miscast" in D&D. Either the spell goes off, or it doesn't. The only "miscast" is when you flub trying to use a scroll you're not normally able to.
Tenebrous_Sage 11-26-06, 12:51 PM	Miscast? You either cast the spell or you don't; there's no miscasting rules (except for scrolls).
Neutronium_Dragon 11-26-06, 01:21 PM	Unless by "miscast" you mean "fail a Concentration check and lose the spell". In that case, no. Your spell simply fails and nothing happens. (Although you still use up the slot you were using to cast it.)
Witchcraft 11-26-06, 01:28 PM	A Recaster (a very good PrC) can change his spell areas.
Nom 11-26-06, 03:13 PM	It does if the spell allows spell resistance;DMG pg 298: "A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items or abilities."
Catra 11-26-06, 06:18 PM	I'm not sure that was a reference to shooting yourself with your own spells. I think by "interfere," it means messing up spells you cast at someone else. It also means, as I understand, that magical items you wear aren't annulled by your own SR. I'm pretty sure you even have to lower your SR to heal yourself (unless it's a potion). I'm not sure about stabbing yourself with a magical weapon, though.
Sphyre 11-26-06, 06:46 PM	I'm not sure that was a reference to shooting yourself with your own spells. I think by "interfere," it means messing up spells you cast at someone else. It also means, as I understand, that magical items you wear aren't annulled by your own SR. I'm pretty sure you even have to lower your SR to heal yourself (unless it's a potion). Spell Resistance never interferes with your own spells. This means if you have spell resistance, you can cast fly on yourself without needing to make a caster level check, or spending the standard action to lower your spell resistance. This means you can cast cure light wounds on yourself from a wand without making a caster level check to break spell resistance, or having to spend a standard action to lower your spell resistance. This means you can activate boots of speed without problem. This also means, that if you cast a fireball centered 5 feet in front of you, your fireball ignores your spell resistance too. Those who play with fire get burned ya know ;)
TaintedSoulBrokenHeart 11-26-06, 07:05 PM	Thanks again everyone...I now have several opinions to show my DM...and like I said before...I always thought I could be scorched by my own fireball.
GalaGalaxia 11-26-06, 07:15 PM	DMG pg 298: "A creature's spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items or abilities." That's about outgoing spells. If you target yourself with a spell (or are within the spell's area of effect) SR still applies. So, you are right -- spell resistance never interferes with the spell, but you can still benefit from it against the spell's effect.
Nom 11-26-06, 09:49 PM	Ah, so if you cast cure light wounds on yourself, the spell works, but the effect (healing) is suppressed by your spell resistance? Are you sure that particular inane distinction was what the rules meant?
KingSpoom 11-26-06, 10:26 PM	No miscast? ... isn't that what arcane spell failure from armor is? Isn't that what being blind or deaf and casting a spell is?
Salla 11-26-06, 10:52 PM	No miscast? ... isn't that what arcane spell failure from armor is? Isn't that what being blind or deaf and casting a spell is? If you blow the ASF check, the spell simply fizzles and nothing happens; it isn't 'miscast' in the mold of 'going off in your face' or 'magical backlash' or 'wild surge' or anything of that sort. You can try to cast a spell while blind or deaf; blindness makes aiming problematic, and you have a 20% chance of failure (again, just failure; no weird side effects) when using verbal components.
GalaGalaxia 11-26-06, 10:55 PM	Ah, so if you cast cure light wounds on yourself, the spell works, but the effect (healing) is suppressed by your spell resistance? Are you sure that particular inane distinction was what the rules meant? Hmm ... In other words -- whether SR applies or not, it has the possibility of sucking real bad :)