Can a caster withold ability mod for spell DC? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can a caster withold ability mod for spell DC? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SureFoot
10-28-03, 08:26 AM Hey all
I've got a wierd question.

If you're fighting melee, you can "pull your punches" and withold your STr bonus, correct?

Can a spellcaster do that with his save DCs? That is, purposefully "not apply" his relevant ability mod to the spell save DC he's casting? (yes, there is a good reason I'm asking . . .)

any references to official sources would be appreciated . . .
Valoy_Muniz
10-28-03, 09:08 AM I do not know if there is anyoffical rules ether way but I would alow it. It he was under someone control and tryed to do this so he would not hurt his friends though I would give a xp penatly for bad roleplaying.
SureFoot
10-28-03, 09:27 AM let me give you the reason I ask this:

there's a spell from Greyhawk Adventures called Tenser's Fortunes of War. It allows the recipient to avoid one debilitating effect in combat--but in order to do that, the recipient has to make a Will save against the Fortunes of War spell (L 6).

My wizard has an ability mod of +10, which makes the save pretty dam hard (26), particularly for the warrior. I'd like to withold that +10 when I cast this spell on my party . . . (at the very least, I'll remove the Headband of Intellect for sure)
True Balance
10-28-03, 09:37 AM i dont know that spell but are you sure it does'nt state "unwilling targets may make a save"? most beneficial spells offer saving throws if the target chooses. also, i think characters may opt to automatically fail saving throws anyway. reread the spell.
Heron_Marked_Blade
10-28-03, 09:43 AM Originally posted by True Balance
i dont know that spell but are you sure it does'nt state "unwilling targets may make a save"? most beneficial spells offer saving throws if the target chooses. also, i think characters may opt to automatically fail saving throws anyway. reread the spell.

Yeah, but as I understand his post the recipient has to succeed at this save to gain the benefits of the spell. Seems to be a strangely counterintuitive spell. I wonder why the spell isn't just a normal "buff" spell?
SureFoot
10-28-03, 10:34 AM I think I'm misunderstanding the spell--it's very poorly worded. They use "If the target succeeds a Will save against the DC of this spell . . ." I was interpreting that to mean the Fortunes of War spell, but now I'm not so sure.

forget it--my DM and I will figure something out. :D
Seeker95
10-28-03, 10:38 AM I think pulling your punches would be a DC call. This could be used to pull punches / melee attacks of any kind. The only thing it could not reduce is magical bonuses.

Perhaps a DC chart like this:
DC 10 Pull strength bonus only
DC 15 Pull weapon damage only
DC 20 Pull strength and weapon damage
DC 25 Pull critical damage
DC 30 Cause a specific amount of total damage

Adjust the roll by the Dexterity bonus.

This could also create the possibility of Feats that improve the ability to pull punches.

Note: I have no idea how this could be modified for spells DC.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SureFoot 10-28-03, 08:26 AM	Hey all I've got a wierd question. If you're fighting melee, you can "pull your punches" and withold your STr bonus, correct? Can a spellcaster do that with his save DCs? That is, purposefully "not apply" his relevant ability mod to the spell save DC he's casting? (yes, there is a good reason I'm asking . . .) any references to official sources would be appreciated . . .
Valoy_Muniz 10-28-03, 09:08 AM	I do not know if there is anyoffical rules ether way but I would alow it. It he was under someone control and tryed to do this so he would not hurt his friends though I would give a xp penatly for bad roleplaying.
SureFoot 10-28-03, 09:27 AM	let me give you the reason I ask this: there's a spell from Greyhawk Adventures called Tenser's Fortunes of War. It allows the recipient to avoid one debilitating effect in combat--but in order to do that, the recipient has to make a Will save against the Fortunes of War spell (L 6). My wizard has an ability mod of +10, which makes the save pretty dam hard (26), particularly for the warrior. I'd like to withold that +10 when I cast this spell on my party . . . (at the very least, I'll remove the Headband of Intellect for sure)
True Balance 10-28-03, 09:37 AM	i dont know that spell but are you sure it does'nt state "unwilling targets may make a save"? most beneficial spells offer saving throws if the target chooses. also, i think characters may opt to automatically fail saving throws anyway. reread the spell.
Heron_Marked_Blade 10-28-03, 09:43 AM	Originally posted by True Balance i dont know that spell but are you sure it does'nt state "unwilling targets may make a save"? most beneficial spells offer saving throws if the target chooses. also, i think characters may opt to automatically fail saving throws anyway. reread the spell. Yeah, but as I understand his post the recipient has to succeed at this save to gain the benefits of the spell. Seems to be a strangely counterintuitive spell. I wonder why the spell isn't just a normal "buff" spell?
SureFoot 10-28-03, 10:34 AM	I think I'm misunderstanding the spell--it's very poorly worded. They use "If the target succeeds a Will save against the DC of this spell . . ." I was interpreting that to mean the Fortunes of War spell, but now I'm not so sure. forget it--my DM and I will figure something out. :D
Seeker95 10-28-03, 10:38 AM	I think pulling your punches would be a DC call. This could be used to pull punches / melee attacks of any kind. The only thing it could not reduce is magical bonuses. Perhaps a DC chart like this: DC 10 Pull strength bonus only DC 15 Pull weapon damage only DC 20 Pull strength and weapon damage DC 25 Pull critical damage DC 30 Cause a specific amount of total damage Adjust the roll by the Dexterity bonus. This could also create the possibility of Feats that improve the ability to pull punches. Note: I have no idea how this could be modified for spells DC.