can a charmed person...be charmed again? [Archive] - Wizards Community

can a charmed person...be charmed again? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
laurent1
03-10-08, 04:58 PM do we need to beat the magic of the first person (like when we try to dispel) ?

And what about dominate person? If one of our party member is being dominated, can I use dominate person to put it back on our side?

And if instead I use my dominate spell to dominate the other caster, can our party member be on our side again.

Thanks (and sorry for my bad english )
Seeker95
03-10-08, 06:10 PM Charm simply makes you a caster's friend. Five casters charming one subject will find that the subject views all of them as friends. The conflict is when multiple friends offer conflicting suggestions, or worse, fight amongst themselves. But this won't end the spell. It just puts the target into the same position you find yourself in when two of your friends get in a disagreement.

A taget dominated by more than one caster also has no direct conflicxts until the orders are conflicting. At that time, the two casters engage in a battle of will checks. The winner sees his or her commands obeyed. The loser still has domiantion in effect, but better find a different set of orders.
mvincent
03-10-08, 06:49 PM what about dominate person?From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects):
"If a creature is under the mental control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys."
ArcTan
03-11-08, 11:28 AM Charm simply makes you a caster's friend. Five casters charming one subject will find that the subject views all of them as friends. The conflict is when multiple friends offer conflicting suggestions, or worse, fight amongst themselves. But this won't end the spell. It just puts the target into the same position you find yourself in when two of your friends get in a disagreement.

A taget dominated by more than one caster also has no direct conflicxts until the orders are conflicting. At that time, the two casters engage in a battle of will checks. The winner sees his or her commands obeyed. The loser still has domiantion in effect, but better find a different set of orders.

As mvincent said, it's a Cha check, not a will check.

Also, even charm is more powerful than you give it credit for. A charmer can, in fact, force his will on someone he's charmed -- even making them go against their nature -- by making a successful Cha check. Two charmers both trying to do so will, of course, make opposed Cha checks.
mvincent
03-11-08, 12:15 PM A charmer can, in fact, force his will on someone he's charmed -- even making them go against their nature -- by making a successful Cha check.From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/charmPerson.htm):
"The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing."

This seems different from dominate's "any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus". I personally can convince close friends to do something they wouldn’t ordinarily do, but I don't think I could convince them to do something against their nature. ymmv.
Kuros81
03-16-08, 01:27 AM As a DM, I once had a powerful NPC charm a retiring PC. The NPC was friendly to the PCs but a little shady.

The other PCs objected. The NPC told them, "I'm only charming him because I expect that where we're going he'll be charmed."

Unbelievably, the other PCs bought it.
DracoPhoenix
03-16-08, 01:06 PM And if instead I use my dominate spell to dominate the other caster, can our party member be on our side again.

Yes :

You : Evil Caster, I want you to dismiss your domination of my friend and fail your save against the spell I'm about to use on you. (Pick your favourite save or die spell)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
laurent1 03-10-08, 04:58 PM	do we need to beat the magic of the first person (like when we try to dispel) ? And what about dominate person? If one of our party member is being dominated, can I use dominate person to put it back on our side? And if instead I use my dominate spell to dominate the other caster, can our party member be on our side again. Thanks (and sorry for my bad english )
Seeker95 03-10-08, 06:10 PM	Charm simply makes you a caster's friend. Five casters charming one subject will find that the subject views all of them as friends. The conflict is when multiple friends offer conflicting suggestions, or worse, fight amongst themselves. But this won't end the spell. It just puts the target into the same position you find yourself in when two of your friends get in a disagreement. A taget dominated by more than one caster also has no direct conflicxts until the orders are conflicting. At that time, the two casters engage in a battle of will checks. The winner sees his or her commands obeyed. The loser still has domiantion in effect, but better find a different set of orders.
mvincent 03-10-08, 06:49 PM	what about dominate person?From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects): "If a creature is under the mental control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys."
ArcTan 03-11-08, 11:28 AM	Charm simply makes you a caster's friend. Five casters charming one subject will find that the subject views all of them as friends. The conflict is when multiple friends offer conflicting suggestions, or worse, fight amongst themselves. But this won't end the spell. It just puts the target into the same position you find yourself in when two of your friends get in a disagreement. A taget dominated by more than one caster also has no direct conflicxts until the orders are conflicting. At that time, the two casters engage in a battle of will checks. The winner sees his or her commands obeyed. The loser still has domiantion in effect, but better find a different set of orders. As mvincent said, it's a Cha check, not a will check. Also, even charm is more powerful than you give it credit for. A charmer can, in fact, force his will on someone he's charmed -- even making them go against their nature -- by making a successful Cha check. Two charmers both trying to do so will, of course, make opposed Cha checks.
mvincent 03-11-08, 12:15 PM	A charmer can, in fact, force his will on someone he's charmed -- even making them go against their nature -- by making a successful Cha check.From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/charmPerson.htm): "The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing." This seems different from dominate's "any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus". I personally can convince close friends to do something they wouldn’t ordinarily do, but I don't think I could convince them to do something against their nature. ymmv.
Kuros81 03-16-08, 01:27 AM	As a DM, I once had a powerful NPC charm a retiring PC. The NPC was friendly to the PCs but a little shady. The other PCs objected. The NPC told them, "I'm only charming him because I expect that where we're going he'll be charmed." Unbelievably, the other PCs bought it.
DracoPhoenix 03-16-08, 01:06 PM	And if instead I use my dominate spell to dominate the other caster, can our party member be on our side again. Yes : You : Evil Caster, I want you to dismiss your domination of my friend and fail your save against the spell I'm about to use on you. (Pick your favourite save or die spell)