Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fronko 08-09-05, 11:39 AM	Hi all! Disclaimer: Believe me: I have just spent about half an hour scanning FAQs and posts, I made a search on this, but honestly nothing popped up. So please, if this has come up before, dont flame me to death, I really tried to find this. Anyway: I sooo want my cleric to learn Permanency to add to his list of spells. But it is an arcane spell. I am not too familiar with magic so far, but wizards for instance can learn previously unknown spells from a scroll. Can my cleric simply buy a permanency scroll and learn it (assuming all prerquisites met)? What would be the exact procedure and in how far does this spell then differ from arcane spells concerning preparation and the like? Thanks for any help, guys! Fronko!
Pryrates 08-09-05, 11:55 AM	Sorry, but the answer is no. You could learn a spell from a Divine Scroll but you are incapable of learning arcane magic. The reason being is that you gain all of your magic from prayer to your god or goddess not from studying magic from a spellbook thus you probably would have difficulty even knowing what was written on an arcane scroll let alone mastering it. On top of that even if you learned Permanency you wouldnt be able to use it on any of the arcane spells listed under what spells permanency effects. You could make symbol spells permanent but thats about it, of course it doesnt matter anyway since you cant learn permanency. sorry.
tarkin 08-09-05, 11:59 AM	No he can't do that. He needs the spell on his list. He has the following options: 1) Take a Domain that has it on his list / Greater Any Spell on it's list (which lets you cast it) (See the Domain "Spell" from PGF) 2) Research a new spell that is somewhat similar, doing what you want it to, but is different enough to be called a clerical spell. (Look into Hallow, it lets you do something similar adding a spell to an area). 3) Get a wizard cohort to learn the spell 4) Take a level of Sorceror/Wizard and buy a scroll 5) Be a mystic Theurge and learn it himself. 6) Cast Miracle to do it. P.S. Permancy is not that great a spell, unless your DM makes foolish house rules.
beaver1024 08-09-05, 12:00 PM	Of course a cleric can learn and cast arcane spells. They are after all the favoured class of the designers. To cast the Permenancy spell from the scroll all you need is the Magic domain. Or else you can cast a Miracle to emulate the Permenancy spell. Otherwise you can use the Initiate of Mystra feat to learn Greater Any Spell and that will allow you to add Permenancy to your spellbook. If you don't have the Initiate of Mystra feat you can also try getting the Spell domain and that will also give you the ability to learn the Permenancy spell through Greater Any Spell.
Fronko 08-09-05, 12:00 PM	But I could be researching a spell like that as mentioned in the DMG (p. 198), right (assuming the DM allows)?
tarkin 08-09-05, 12:05 PM	Advice about emulating a spell: I personally allow you to do that kind of thing only if: 1) You change the spell a little bit and make it one level higher. 2) You change the spell a lot. ------------------------ Your DM may just let you copy it at the same level, but I consider that to be bad DMing.
Alvaric 08-09-05, 05:13 PM	Anyway: I sooo want my cleric to learn Permanency to add to his list of spells. But it is an arcane spell. I am not too familiar with magic so far, but wizards for instance can learn previously unknown spells from a scroll. Can my cleric simply buy a permanency scroll and learn it (assuming all prerquisites met)? What would be the exact procedure and in how far does this spell then differ from arcane spells concerning preparation and the like? It's part of the (stupidly overpowered) Time domain from the FR campaign setting, so there's that. If you've chosen your domains already and you're locked out of that, there's also the Extra Spell feat from the Complete Arcane, which may or may not (the debate continues ad nauseam) allow you one single spell from beyond your normal spell list.
tarkin 08-09-05, 05:52 PM	You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. No matter how many times people point out that extra spell does not put the spell on your list and that if it did it would be horribly overpowered (unless you put in a ton of house rules), people that want a Horribly over-powered ability will ignore what we say. There is no "debate". There are people that play the way WoTC says to play (Try any Living City game, for example) and there are people that refuse to admit they live in Oz.
Alvaric 08-10-05, 02:55 AM	You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. No matter how many times people point out that extra spell does not put the spell on your list and that if it did it would be horribly overpowered (unless you put in a ton of house rules), people that want a Horribly over-powered ability will ignore what we say. There is no "debate". There are people that play the way WoTC says to play (Try any Living City game, for example) and there are people that refuse to admit they live in Oz. *Sigh* Like I said: ad nauseam. If the OP cares to dredge through the topic himself, he can go here: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=471686. Suffice to say, a number of people don't feel that the spell works as described, but quite a few do. Either way the OP and his DM might decide, I'm sure it will be of the utmost importance to Tarkin's game.
Fronko 08-12-05, 10:13 AM	Thanks for all the enlightenment, folks. I do see, that there may be a problem with learning arcane spells... I will do as suggested: Let my DM decide. Thinking about it, I (as a DM) probably would not allow, so I probably am not even going to ask. Dunno ... thanks for the thread link btw ... very enlightening. ;)
Jolly Josh 08-12-05, 02:27 PM	focus on getting alot of miracles a day
CryoSilver 08-12-05, 09:57 PM	Or, use a domain capsule thingie from the Libris Mortis to gain access to the Tiome domain long enough to cast permanency! Yay for power creep!