Can a Druid animal Growth himself? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can a Druid animal Growth himself? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bort333
05-27-05, 12:27 PM Can he do this? That seems wrong!
Teron Gorefiend
05-27-05, 12:33 PM Yes. The Wild Spell feat (which is required to do this) is overpowered and should never have been added to the 3.5 core rules.
Gingerbread Guy
05-27-05, 01:20 PM Since wildshape functions as polymorph for most purposes, the Druid's type actually changes to "animal" for the duration of his/her wildshape. As such, s/he can be affected by spells that target animals, and s/he's immune to effects that only target humanoids, etc.

~Ginger
Darken
05-27-05, 01:20 PM Yes, it's possible. Animal Growth spell targets Animals, and Wildshape ability, which references Polymorph, changes your type to Animal (and/or Plant/Elemental later on), making yourself a legal target for Animal Growth.
Scifione
05-27-05, 05:02 PM Yes! It would work. No, it is not too over powering. Remember it works like polymorph, and animalls cannot use magic items. This means no belt of giant's strength, bracers of health, or armor. They would not be more powerfull than a fighter of the same level geared to melee.
Zherog
05-27-05, 05:11 PM Can you show me where it says animals can't use magic items?
smrtgmp
05-27-05, 05:15 PM Zherog's right (as usual). Most items resize to fit the wearer. Pretty much the only ones that dont ar weapons and armor. As such, many of your wondrous items will remain active when you polymorph/wildshape.

They talk about this in depth in Draconimicon, in case you're wondering.
Zherog
05-27-05, 05:17 PM And even armor can be kept, though it's expensive (+3 armor ability).

Weapons, too, can be worked around. Especially if you allow the "Opposable" weapon ability from Masters of the Wild. All the druid has to do is drop the weapon, wild shape, then pick up the weapon again.
Scifione
05-27-05, 06:26 PM See page 213 & 214 in DMG, and consult your DM.

If you look under using magic items, you will notice that most can’t be used by animals. Spell completion, spell trigger, and command word items can never be used by animals because they can meet the requirements to activate the item. Use activation is another story. Some items cannot be manipulated by some animals to any effectiveness. A rhino can’t use a potion because he can’t handle it. Items worn offer a chance to be used.

“Size and Magic Items” on page 213 offers some leeway at the discretion of the DM. This compared to “Magic Items on the Body” on page 214 shows many item fit certain parts of the body. Many animals don’t have some of these.

One thing is true. I did overstate myself earlier and meant to say animals can’t use almost any magic items in the DMG. Some items are made especially for animals.

I also was thinking about the fact that useless items are absorbed into the new form. (PHB page 197 Alter Self and page 263 Polymorph)
lordsloth
05-27-05, 07:53 PM Yes! It would work. No, it is not too over powering. Remember it works like polymorph, and animalls cannot use magic items. This means no belt of giant's strength, bracers of health, or armor. They would not be more powerfull than a fighter of the same level geared to melee.

And the fact that you are in fact a spellcaster that can match melee with the melee focussed character does not seem a bit over the top to you?

Don't get me wrong, i am quite aware that there are several ways to accomplish equal or superior melee fighting with spellcasters, but that does not make it right :)

Pure melee characters really get the short end of the stick (apart from a few powergamed minmaxed builds including at least 2 classes and god knows how many PrC's, but im talking about general characters made by normal non-munchkin players)
tiercel
05-27-05, 08:02 PM The Wizards site's "Rules of the Game" pages dealing with Polymorphing (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a ) have this to say: When a subject changes from a form with a humanoid shape to a form with a nonhumanoid shape (or vice versa) most of his equipment is subsumed into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. Items the subject could conceivably wear in an assumed form remain functional. For example, most items worn on the body, such as armor, cloaks, boots, and most other items of clothing made for a humanoid body won't fit on a nonhumanoid body. Some items can fit on just about any kind of body. For example, a ring fits just about any form that has digits of some kind (the limit of two rings applies no matter how many hands or similar appendages a creature has). Likewise, a necklace fits on just about any form that has a neck.I take this to be a clarification of the actual language in alter self (SRD):When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bort333 05-27-05, 12:27 PM	Can he do this? That seems wrong!
Teron Gorefiend 05-27-05, 12:33 PM	Yes. The Wild Spell feat (which is required to do this) is overpowered and should never have been added to the 3.5 core rules.
Gingerbread Guy 05-27-05, 01:20 PM	Since wildshape functions as polymorph for most purposes, the Druid's type actually changes to "animal" for the duration of his/her wildshape. As such, s/he can be affected by spells that target animals, and s/he's immune to effects that only target humanoids, etc. ~Ginger
Darken 05-27-05, 01:20 PM	Yes, it's possible. Animal Growth spell targets Animals, and Wildshape ability, which references Polymorph, changes your type to Animal (and/or Plant/Elemental later on), making yourself a legal target for Animal Growth.
Scifione 05-27-05, 05:02 PM	Yes! It would work. No, it is not too over powering. Remember it works like polymorph, and animalls cannot use magic items. This means no belt of giant's strength, bracers of health, or armor. They would not be more powerfull than a fighter of the same level geared to melee.
Zherog 05-27-05, 05:11 PM	Can you show me where it says animals can't use magic items?
smrtgmp 05-27-05, 05:15 PM	Zherog's right (as usual). Most items resize to fit the wearer. Pretty much the only ones that dont ar weapons and armor. As such, many of your wondrous items will remain active when you polymorph/wildshape. They talk about this in depth in Draconimicon, in case you're wondering.
Zherog 05-27-05, 05:17 PM	And even armor can be kept, though it's expensive (+3 armor ability). Weapons, too, can be worked around. Especially if you allow the "Opposable" weapon ability from Masters of the Wild. All the druid has to do is drop the weapon, wild shape, then pick up the weapon again.
Scifione 05-27-05, 06:26 PM	See page 213 & 214 in DMG, and consult your DM. If you look under using magic items, you will notice that most can’t be used by animals. Spell completion, spell trigger, and command word items can never be used by animals because they can meet the requirements to activate the item. Use activation is another story. Some items cannot be manipulated by some animals to any effectiveness. A rhino can’t use a potion because he can’t handle it. Items worn offer a chance to be used. “Size and Magic Items” on page 213 offers some leeway at the discretion of the DM. This compared to “Magic Items on the Body” on page 214 shows many item fit certain parts of the body. Many animals don’t have some of these. One thing is true. I did overstate myself earlier and meant to say animals can’t use almost any magic items in the DMG. Some items are made especially for animals. I also was thinking about the fact that useless items are absorbed into the new form. (PHB page 197 Alter Self and page 263 Polymorph)
lordsloth 05-27-05, 07:53 PM	Yes! It would work. No, it is not too over powering. Remember it works like polymorph, and animalls cannot use magic items. This means no belt of giant's strength, bracers of health, or armor. They would not be more powerfull than a fighter of the same level geared to melee. And the fact that you are in fact a spellcaster that can match melee with the melee focussed character does not seem a bit over the top to you? Don't get me wrong, i am quite aware that there are several ways to accomplish equal or superior melee fighting with spellcasters, but that does not make it right :) Pure melee characters really get the short end of the stick (apart from a few powergamed minmaxed builds including at least 2 classes and god knows how many PrC's, but im talking about general characters made by normal non-munchkin players)
tiercel 05-27-05, 08:02 PM	The Wizards site's "Rules of the Game" pages dealing with Polymorphing (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a ) have this to say: When a subject changes from a form with a humanoid shape to a form with a nonhumanoid shape (or vice versa) most of his equipment is subsumed into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. Items the subject could conceivably wear in an assumed form remain functional. For example, most items worn on the body, such as armor, cloaks, boots, and most other items of clothing made for a humanoid body won't fit on a nonhumanoid body. Some items can fit on just about any kind of body. For example, a ring fits just about any form that has digits of some kind (the limit of two rings applies no matter how many hands or similar appendages a creature has). Likewise, a necklace fits on just about any form that has a neck.I take this to be a clarification of the actual language in alter self (SRD):When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.