Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Atar 03-06-06, 01:28 PM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/poison.htm Like the title says, would it work? :) That would be pretty darned badass :D Regards, Atar
Puca 03-06-06, 01:56 PM	Reading the description and all over again, I cant see why it wouldnt work, and considering it is Con damage, that is very, very scary. I can see the objection: Poison creates a poison, and it is that that does the damage not the spell per se, hence it is not subject to Empower/Maximize. But it isnt a creation spell; its necromancy. Spells that use heat or cold or negative energy or any such thing would obviously be maximixed, so why not one that uses poison?
Seeker95 03-06-06, 03:17 PM	It can be maximized. There is no question in that regard. It is not a conjuration spell, the only manner in which it *might* be arguable that the effect is not part of the casting.
Wind of Darkness 03-06-06, 07:52 PM	Let's ask the SRD. All variable, numeric effects of a spell modified by this feat are maximized. Saving throws and opposed rolls are not affected, nor are spells without random variables. A maximized spell uses up a spell slot three levels higher than the spell’s actual level. All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half. Poison[/i] text]Calling upon the venomous powers of natural predators, you infect the subject with a horrible poison by making a successful melee touch attack. The poison deals 1d10 points of temporary Constitution damage immediately and another 1d10 points of temporary Constitution damage 1 minute later. Each instance of damage can be negated by a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ your caster level + your Wis modifier). I'd say 1d10 CON damage is a variable, numeric effect. So, scary as it sounds, I'd say it works.
stamhaven 03-06-06, 09:37 PM	Not too scary though,considering that the save DC doesn't go up with the higher effective spell level for empowering or maximizing it.
Tony111 03-06-06, 10:04 PM	considering that the save DC doesn't go up with the higher effective spell level for empowering or maximizing it. Poison's DC is actually not based the same way as other spells' DCs. Check it out. Poison Necromancy Level: Clr 4, Drd 3 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Living creature touched Duration: Instantaneous; see text Saving Throw: Fortitude negates; see text Spell Resistance: Yes Calling upon the venomous powers of natural predators, you infect the subject with a horrible poison by making a successful melee touch attack. The poison deals 1d10 points of temporary Constitution damage immediately and another 1d10 points of temporary Constitution damage 1 minute later. Each instance of damage can be negated by a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 your caster level + your Wis modifier). Emphasis mine. But yeah, it is really not all that scary. Maximized poison is 6th level for druids, but by then things should be royally screwed if they fail saves, and you can use them from a distance. Consider baleful polymoprh at druid 5. -Tony
Marshall 03-07-06, 03:08 AM	Since this came up a couple weeks ago... Does having spell focus(Nec) affect the save DC?
strumbleduck 03-07-06, 03:21 AM	Does having spell focus(Nec) affect the save DC? I think the answer is pretty clearly yes. Here's the text of Spell Focus: Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against spells from the school of magic you select. The fact that the poison spell has a special way of calculating its save DC doesn't seem relevant to whether the feat works.
Atar 03-07-06, 04:10 AM	Wow, interesting stuff. I indeed figured it might not work because its a posion you create, but thats not the case as its Necromancy (I see that now, didn't before). Sweet :D
runestar 03-07-06, 07:50 AM	Now a small question: why does the assassin's dagger, which lets you cast poison 1/day, use a different formula for calculating the dc? The dc is 14, which is spell lv+ min stat mod, which differs from that used for poison's dc. ;)
Atar 03-07-06, 02:35 PM	Maybe the flavor is that it uses another poison?
Seeker95 03-07-06, 03:39 PM	why does the assassin's dagger, which lets you cast poison 1/dayFirst, you mean the dagger of venom. The assassin's dagger provides a +1 bonus to the DC of a Fortitude save forced by the death attack of an assassin. Second, the dagger of venom doesn't let you cast poison once a day. It allows the wielder to use a poison effect (as the spell, save DC 14) upon a creature struck by the blade once per day. Magic items do not cast spells. They have effects derived from spells. As such, they tend to have fixed DCs.
BW0222 03-07-06, 07:44 PM	Maximized poison would be a 6th-level spell splot. That would mean that you are dealing with 11th+ level characters and APL 11 monsters. At this APL, even maximized poison isn't that great. 1) Save. 10+4+(1/2*11) = DC 19. No offense but that against APL 11 targets, even those with a bad save (wizard, rogue, etc.) are at +5 and still 50% likely to save. Anything big is at +12 to +15 and pushing 70%+ likely to save. 2) Immunities. By those levels lots of stuff have poison immunity. Besides undead, constructs, elementals, etc. you have a lot of outsiders, drow, etc., etc. with immunity. 3) Touch. As a touch spell, that means a druid needs to go toe-to-toe against an adult black dragon or something. This typically means a trip through reach, some defensive casting, and a complete inability to flee if things go wrong. 4) Damage. Even 10 points of Con damage is not fatal to most big nasties at those APLs. A hill giant might take 60 hit points of damage, but he still has 102 hit points. Even if it fails, you might not last through the next round against a dragon, hill giant, etc. Either will certainly do 60+ hit point back to you on their turn -- and you likely don't have 100+ hit points. 5) Lots of other spells would do similiar damage or more damage. A harm spell would do 110hp, or 55 with a will save. An empowered lightning bolt would do 60 (failed) or 30 (succeeded) to multiple creatures. 6) There are far better 6th-level spells in the druid's list. I'd personally rather put a 16hd elemental in between me and some nasty, rather than hope it will fail a save. Wall of thorns, summoned elementals, anti-life shell, etc. are likely more powerful spells. At higher APLs hoping that someone will fail a saving throw isn't a great tactic with creatures which can kill a PC in one or two rounds of normal attacks.