Post/Author/DateTime	Post
telldel 12-03-06, 11:05 AM	Okay, someone in my party told me that a good wizard can not summon an evil creature with a summon monster spell. Is this true? If it is true, does this restriction also apply to lawful and chaotic alignments? Can a lawful creature summon a chaotic creature? What if the caster was true neutral? If it isn't true, and you CAN summon an evil creature with a good alignment, is it considered an act of evil to summon an evil monster? HOW DOES ALIGNMENT AFFECT ARCANE SUMMONING SPELLS? WHO YA GONNA TELL? TELLDEL
Witch 12-03-06, 11:09 AM	It's not true for Arcane casters. It is true for Divine casters. Lawful/Chaotic is equal - so yes, for Divine casters, this is true. A true neutral divine caster can likely not summon those of extreme alignments (LE, CE, LG, CG) Summoning an evil monster is considered an evil act.
Bladegeek 12-03-06, 11:14 AM	If you strictly go by the rules I would say no because in the spell description it list by alignment what you can summon. However as a DM I would say yes.....arcane only. And no it is not an act of evil. For instance one party that I DM knows the true name of a Succubus and sometimes they summon her to get info on other evil creatures. They are not sure if she is lying or not and she may strike out at them. That is the risk that they take but it is not an act of evil. As in the real world if you want to know what the bad guys are up to sometimes you have to talk to other bad guys. Also it is fun to play the evil monster because they may or may not help the party depending of if it benefits the monster in question. Next thing you know the PC's start to believe the bad guy they summon and then they are screwed.
Witch 12-03-06, 11:22 AM	When you use a summoning spell to summon an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type. [Descriptor] Appearing on the same line as the school and subschool, when applicable, is a descriptor that further categorizes the spell in some way. Some spells have more than one descriptor. The descriptors are acid, air, chaotic, cold, darkness, death, earth, electricity, evil, fear, fire, force, good, language-dependent, lawful, light, mind-affecting, sonic, and water. Most of these descriptors have no game effect by themselves, but they govern how the spell interacts with other spells, with special abilities, with unusual creatures, with alignment, and so on. A language-dependent spell uses intelligible language as a medium for communication. If the target cannot understand or cannot hear what the caster of a language-dependant spell says the spell fails. A mind-affecting spell works only against creatures with an Intelligence score of 1 or higher. Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s (if he has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions. That's the relevant information.
leather_book_wizard 12-03-06, 11:53 AM	Yeah,the alignment restrictions are only for clerics. A LawfuL Good wizard can summon a Chaotic Evil monster,but a Lawful Good cleric cannot.
Seeker95 12-03-06, 07:57 PM	As others have said, a wizard is not bound by the [alignment] tag with respect to *can he cast* such a spell. But some DMs may very well question the alignment impact frequent and willing casting may have on the caster. A Good arcane caster that willingly summons [evil] creatures may find his alignment sliding toward neutral.
telldel 12-05-06, 05:59 PM	Okay... Now, I guess the follow up question is logical... If a wizard CAN summon a creature against his alignment, will (or should) these creatures willingly fight creatures of the same alignment as themselves? For example, if I summoned a CE creature, would it fight alongside me and my LG party to help us take down the CE creature we're fighting? Or would it (could it?) refuse or turn on us? To what degree do summoned creatures have free will? WHO YA GONNA TELL? TELLDEL
RecycledDM 12-05-06, 06:13 PM	To what degree do summoned creatures have free will? They have exactly as much free will as the DM allows them to have, as per the SRD description of conjuration spells (bolding mine): Conjuration Each conjuration spell belongs to one of five subschools. Conjurations bring manifestations of objects, creatures, or some form of energy to you (the summoning subschool), actually transport creatures from another plane of existence to your plane (calling), heal (healing), transport creatures or objects over great distances (teleportation), or create objects or effects on the spot (creation). Creatures you conjure usually, but not always, obey your commands.
Centauri 12-05-06, 06:21 PM	They have exactly as much free will as the DM allows them to have, as per the SRD description of conjuration spells (bolding mine): Summon monster is somewhat restrictive in that the summoned creature "attacks your opponents to the best of its ability." It must at least do that, without regard to its alignment and without receiving any commands from the caster. On the other hand, a creature with an area attack could certainly just happen to catch its summoner or his friends in the area of effect while still attacking the caster's enemies to the best of its ability.
Seeker95 12-05-06, 08:42 PM	Which brings us back to: They have exactly as much free will as the DM allows them to have. If your DM lets you do it, then you can. In my campaign, if you summon a creature with an alignment, it has an alignment. And if it has intelligence, it has a memory. Subjugate across alignment lines at your own risk.
Centauri 12-05-06, 08:58 PM	Which brings us back to: They have exactly as much free will as the DM allows them to have As long as they attack the summoner's enemies if given no other instructions. The DM can't say that the fiendish dire bat you just summoned immediately turns and attacks you. It has to attack your enemies. How it knows who your enemies are is not clear, but must be part of the mental action of casting the spell. A DM also couldn't/shouldn't (wouldn't) have your fiendish dire bat attack you hireling who secretly plots your murder every night without your knowledge.
Azarias 12-05-06, 09:05 PM	Recycled DM: your quote ('Usually but not always') applies to *all* Conjured creatures. That is, Called and Summoned. The two things are very different, as your quote describes. Summoned manifestations are not complete creatures. The manifestations act as the summoner commands, within the parameters of the Summon M/NA description. Their intelligence and alignment are largely irrelevant, since they are not fully real nor free-willed. A Good cleric cannot summon a demon not because he would be releasing an evil creature into the world (he would not be: it is not an independent creature) but because the spell has the Evil descriptor, and his spell list does not include such spells. Called creatures are the real thing. Clearly, a Called creature will not always obey the caller. Thus the 'Usually but not always.'