Can a spell-like ability be spellcrafted? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can a spell-like ability be spellcrafted? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DKClare
02-13-06, 11:41 PM Can a spell-like ability be spellcrafted (by the spellcraft skill) ?

Even I try to look into the article "All About Spell-Like Abilities" on the official web site, its seems that the article doesn't cover this problem.
smrtgmp
02-14-06, 12:22 AM If nothing else, I would think you could use spell-craft to identify the effect produced by an SLA, even if you couldnt identify it while it was being activated.
Seeker95
02-14-06, 11:40 AM You can't, since there is nothing to "identify".
However, I feel smrtgmp is right... you can identify the effect, although this would probably be more useful in identifying that it is "not a spell".
FEADIN1
02-14-06, 11:49 AM Can a spell-like ability be spellcrafted (by the spellcraft skill) ?

Even I try to look into the article "All About Spell-Like Abilities" on the official web site, its seems that the article doesn't cover this problem.

No, you can only try on spells during the casting (or after) because they have components, and magical effects (results of spells or spell like abilities or supernatural abilities) because the result is like a spell effect.
Acear
02-14-06, 12:21 PM Can a spell-like ability be spellcrafted (by the spellcraft skill) ?

Even I try to look into the article "All About Spell-Like Abilities" on the official web site, its seems that the article doesn't cover this problem.

The rule states "Check: You can identify spells and magic effects. The DCs for Spellcraft checks relating to various tasks are summarized on the table above."

RAW says yes.
Father Dale
02-14-06, 05:13 PM We had this very question come up the other night.

We argued it over a bit and the DM came to the very reasonable conclusion of imposing a -10 penalty to spellcraft checks for identifying a spell being mimiced via a spell like ability.

I think by the RAW it is doable, although it doesn't state how difficult it is. I mean, if a character can "understand the effects of a magic stream," it seems like he could possibly identify a spell like ability in use.

Note though that spell like abilities are not susceptible to being counterspelled, so the character is only getting information and can't realy do anything with it (short of making defensive decisions, such as whether to use his Moment of Prescience, or catalouging the information about the creature.)
DKClare
02-15-06, 04:34 AM In fact, in my group of players, some suggested that, when using a spell-like ability, we can treat it as a silented-, stilled- spell with no material components, so the DC to spellcraft the ability when it is activated is 15 + spell level of the ability + 6(using the rules in Tomb And Blood). provided that the character want to perform spellcraft skill notice the ability is activated.

However, the situation now I face is:

A polymorphed(change into a elf this case) Succusbus(12HD), using a ready action, to use a quickened "Suggestion" on a fighter right before the fighter start to act, the command given to the fighter is through the Succusbus's telepathy ability so that no others can hear the command, and the Suggestion is then perform by the fighter almost immediately, so that the ability’s effect end in just a second.
The player playing the Succusbus claims that her action wouldn’t review her true identity, so the others should see her as a normal elf.

During this event, however, one other player (the PLAYER knows her true identity, of course) say that he can use a spellcraft to know that “that elf” is using something unnatural, and so as to review the Succucbus true identity.(the party is Good in general)

Now I’m wandering which side is right under the standard rules.
smrtgmp
02-15-06, 04:55 AM Given the circumstances, I would side with the succubus.
Egres
02-15-06, 08:08 AM Can a spell-like ability be spellcrafted (by the spellcraft skill) ?

Even I try to look into the article "All About Spell-Like Abilities" on the official web site, its seems that the article doesn't cover this problem.

Well, that's not entirely true.

From the RotG article you mentioned:

A spell-like ability is essentially hardwired into its user's psyche, and its power is released mentally. The process is sufficiently different from spellcasting so it that doesn't allow a foe to identify the spell-like ability
DKClare
02-15-06, 08:54 PM @_@

Oh.......it seems my sport check was failed........

Thank You very much~~ :w00t:
Egres
02-16-06, 04:23 AM @_@

Oh.......it seems my sport check was failed........

Thank You very much~~ :w00t:
It seems your typing check failed too.:D
Acear
02-16-06, 02:57 PM In fact, in my group of players, some suggested that, when using a spell-like ability, we can treat it as a silented-, stilled- spell with no material components, so the DC to spellcraft the ability when it is activated is 15 + spell level of the ability + 6(using the rules in Tomb And Blood). provided that the character want to perform spellcraft skill notice the ability is activated.

However, the situation now I face is:

A polymorphed(change into a elf this case) Succusbus(12HD), using a ready action, to use a quickened "Suggestion" on a fighter right before the fighter start to act, the command given to the fighter is through the Succusbus's telepathy ability so that no others can hear the command, and the Suggestion is then perform by the fighter almost immediately, so that the ability’s effect end in just a second.
The player playing the Succusbus claims that her action wouldn’t review her true identity, so the others should see her as a normal elf.

During this event, however, one other player (the PLAYER knows her true identity, of course) say that he can use a spellcraft to know that “that elf” is using something unnatural, and so as to review the Succucbus true identity.(the party is Good in general)

Now I’m wandering which side is right under the standard rules.

If the Attack is being done on the sly, then I would say that a Sense motive Check should be made against the Succubus's Bluff Check. If he make's the check, he senses that the Succubus is influencing him, but not sure how. He can then make a Spellcraft roll to she if he can figure out how she is doing it. If he has 5 ranks in Knowledge: the Planes he should get a +2 to his spellcraft roll, in my opinion. If you think that this is too generous, roll this secretly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DKClare 02-13-06, 11:41 PM	Can a spell-like ability be spellcrafted (by the spellcraft skill) ? Even I try to look into the article "All About Spell-Like Abilities" on the official web site, its seems that the article doesn't cover this problem.
smrtgmp 02-14-06, 12:22 AM	If nothing else, I would think you could use spell-craft to identify the effect produced by an SLA, even if you couldnt identify it while it was being activated.
Seeker95 02-14-06, 11:40 AM	You can't, since there is nothing to "identify". However, I feel smrtgmp is right... you can identify the effect, although this would probably be more useful in identifying that it is "not a spell".
FEADIN1 02-14-06, 11:49 AM	Can a spell-like ability be spellcrafted (by the spellcraft skill) ? Even I try to look into the article "All About Spell-Like Abilities" on the official web site, its seems that the article doesn't cover this problem. No, you can only try on spells during the casting (or after) because they have components, and magical effects (results of spells or spell like abilities or supernatural abilities) because the result is like a spell effect.
Acear 02-14-06, 12:21 PM	Can a spell-like ability be spellcrafted (by the spellcraft skill) ? Even I try to look into the article "All About Spell-Like Abilities" on the official web site, its seems that the article doesn't cover this problem. The rule states "Check: You can identify spells and magic effects. The DCs for Spellcraft checks relating to various tasks are summarized on the table above." RAW says yes.
Father Dale 02-14-06, 05:13 PM	We had this very question come up the other night. We argued it over a bit and the DM came to the very reasonable conclusion of imposing a -10 penalty to spellcraft checks for identifying a spell being mimiced via a spell like ability. I think by the RAW it is doable, although it doesn't state how difficult it is. I mean, if a character can "understand the effects of a magic stream," it seems like he could possibly identify a spell like ability in use. Note though that spell like abilities are not susceptible to being counterspelled, so the character is only getting information and can't realy do anything with it (short of making defensive decisions, such as whether to use his Moment of Prescience, or catalouging the information about the creature.)
DKClare 02-15-06, 04:34 AM	In fact, in my group of players, some suggested that, when using a spell-like ability, we can treat it as a silented-, stilled- spell with no material components, so the DC to spellcraft the ability when it is activated is 15 + spell level of the ability + 6(using the rules in Tomb And Blood). provided that the character want to perform spellcraft skill notice the ability is activated. However, the situation now I face is: A polymorphed(change into a elf this case) Succusbus(12HD), using a ready action, to use a quickened "Suggestion" on a fighter right before the fighter start to act, the command given to the fighter is through the Succusbus's telepathy ability so that no others can hear the command, and the Suggestion is then perform by the fighter almost immediately, so that the ability’s effect end in just a second. The player playing the Succusbus claims that her action wouldn’t review her true identity, so the others should see her as a normal elf. During this event, however, one other player (the PLAYER knows her true identity, of course) say that he can use a spellcraft to know that “that elf” is using something unnatural, and so as to review the Succucbus true identity.(the party is Good in general) Now I’m wandering which side is right under the standard rules.
smrtgmp 02-15-06, 04:55 AM	Given the circumstances, I would side with the succubus.
Egres 02-15-06, 08:08 AM	Can a spell-like ability be spellcrafted (by the spellcraft skill) ? Even I try to look into the article "All About Spell-Like Abilities" on the official web site, its seems that the article doesn't cover this problem. Well, that's not entirely true. From the RotG article you mentioned: A spell-like ability is essentially hardwired into its user's psyche, and its power is released mentally. The process is sufficiently different from spellcasting so it that doesn't allow a foe to identify the spell-like ability
DKClare 02-15-06, 08:54 PM	@_@ Oh.......it seems my sport check was failed........ Thank You very much~~ :w00t:
Egres 02-16-06, 04:23 AM	@_@ Oh.......it seems my sport check was failed........ Thank You very much~~ :w00t: It seems your typing check failed too.:D
Acear 02-16-06, 02:57 PM	In fact, in my group of players, some suggested that, when using a spell-like ability, we can treat it as a silented-, stilled- spell with no material components, so the DC to spellcraft the ability when it is activated is 15 + spell level of the ability + 6(using the rules in Tomb And Blood). provided that the character want to perform spellcraft skill notice the ability is activated. However, the situation now I face is: A polymorphed(change into a elf this case) Succusbus(12HD), using a ready action, to use a quickened "Suggestion" on a fighter right before the fighter start to act, the command given to the fighter is through the Succusbus's telepathy ability so that no others can hear the command, and the Suggestion is then perform by the fighter almost immediately, so that the ability’s effect end in just a second. The player playing the Succusbus claims that her action wouldn’t review her true identity, so the others should see her as a normal elf. During this event, however, one other player (the PLAYER knows her true identity, of course) say that he can use a spellcraft to know that “that elf” is using something unnatural, and so as to review the Succucbus true identity.(the party is Good in general) Now I’m wandering which side is right under the standard rules. If the Attack is being done on the sly, then I would say that a Sense motive Check should be made against the Succubus's Bluff Check. If he make's the check, he senses that the Succubus is influencing him, but not sure how. He can then make a Spellcraft roll to she if he can figure out how she is doing it. If he has 5 ranks in Knowledge: the Planes he should get a +2 to his spellcraft roll, in my opinion. If you think that this is too generous, roll this secretly.