Can a wizard cast Cure spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can a wizard cast Cure spells? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Baned
08-31-05, 11:11 PM I've been thinking, if you have a Bard who knows Cure Light Wounds, and he scribes a scroll of it. Can the party Wizard copy this spell to his spellbook, since they are both Arcane?
High Octane
08-31-05, 11:17 PM By the RAW no. Its really up to your DM since they say that you can add spells "Not in the players handbook" (along those lines).

In my campaign, I would say no way. It would completely eliminate the usefulness of a cleric. Its a huge step allowing healing spells for a wizard or sorcerer.

Edit: Also, bard spells cannot be put into a wizards spellbook, since they are not the same spell list.
Joanem
08-31-05, 11:29 PM If you look in the DMG in the section with all of the Wizard scrolls you'll see Heal scrolls so i don't see why you can't copy the scroll into your spell book ;)
tharivol266
08-31-05, 11:30 PM well since a wizard can research spells and make new one(with dm;s consent) it is feesable that there could be a way to modify the cure series to be on the wiz/sor list.
Rake
08-31-05, 11:38 PM If you look in the DMG in the section with all of the Wizard scrolls you'll see Heal scrolls so i don't see why you can't copy the scroll into your spell book ;)

You misunderstand the entry. Those aren't wizard scrolls, those are arcane scrolls. The only way for a wizard to cast a cure spell (unless your DM is reallllly nice) is to use an Eternal Wand (from Ebberon) crafted by a bard.
Gurv
08-31-05, 11:47 PM Correct. Just because something is an arcane spell does not mean that it is a wizard spell. Bards, wizards, and sorcerers cast arcane spells. But bards cannot cast every spell that a wizard or sorcerer can, and there are a few spells that bards have access to that wizards do not. Cure spells are an example of such spells: just because they exist in an arcane form does not mean that wizards can use them.
Molitor
08-31-05, 11:52 PM I've been thinking, if you have a Bard who knows Cure Light Wounds, and he scribes a scroll of it. Can the party Wizard copy this spell to his spellbook, since they are both Arcane?
Yes it's called summon monster followed by vampiric touch.
Rake
08-31-05, 11:57 PM Yes it's called summon monster followed by vampiric touch.

Just a tad inefficient, but yeah, it technically works.
Baned
09-01-05, 12:11 AM Hmm, I may just houserule it. I'm the DM in this group, by the way. The players haven't suggested it, or probably even thought of it. Just an idea I had.

They group have no bard, or any divine spell casters. Curing is pretty much done entirely with Cure potions. Sooner or later though, they find themselves in an environment where it's hard to aquire these potions... :schemes:
Molitor
09-01-05, 12:26 AM Just a tad inefficient, but yeah, it technically works.

Yes, as a DM I would never let a player get past the "wizards should be able to heal with spells" arguement.

Although with some summoned monsters you could have them heal you.
rks
09-01-05, 03:27 AM The Arcane Disciple-feat from Complete Arcane (or was it C Divine?) gives an arcane caster access to one domain of the patron deity. These spells could be cure-spells or whatever from a domain. The sad part is that these spells can only be used once every day, per spell level.
smrtgmp
09-01-05, 04:48 AM It was Complete Divine.

There are other ways as well, though they are somewhat limited in their scope.

1) limited wish can duplicate 5th level and lower spells from other spell lists. Heal is a 5th level adept spell. The 300xp cost might make you think twice, but its less xp than you would lose if you died.

2) the arcane disciple feat, as was mentioned above.

3) the recaster (from races of eberron) allows you to add any two spells to your spell list.

4) if you go all the way in rainbow adept (PrC from CD) you gain access to the cleric spell list.

I'm sure there are other options, but its late and I'm tired.

Hope that helped. :)
smrtgmp
09-01-05, 04:50 AM Yes it's called summon monster followed by vampiric touch.Given that vampiric touch only gives you temp hp, I wouldnt exactly call it healing. I wish they would have left that spell alone. The 2nd edition version was much better, IMO.
Nayk
09-01-05, 08:31 AM Have a look to the extra spell feat (don't know where), it was mentionned in a similar thread about clerics/druids casting wizards spells. It's actually not far from this thread so you should have a look at it.

Nayk
Odin_666
09-01-05, 09:28 AM you mean this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=490402

but i doubt that the feat works the way you like it to work
runestar
09-01-05, 10:22 AM Doesn't the DMG section on researching spells have a little section suggesting that wizards be discouraged from researching heal spells or something?
Seeker95
09-01-05, 10:41 AM They group have no bard, or any divine spell casters. Curing is pretty much done entirely with Cure potions. Sooner or later though, they find themselves in an environment where it's hard to aquire these potions...
Do not hand the wizard direct access to cure spells. Don't give them a fix for a problem they chose to create for themselves. In choosing not to have a cure-casting character in the party, they have decided to take the risk. They will buy the potions, maybe take some levels in UMD and buy wands of cure light wounds and otherwise make things work. They can also get cohorts and hirelings. There are many ways around the problem. Do not make up a new one simply because they chose the classes they have.
tarkin
09-01-05, 11:14 AM Seeker95 is correct.

Here are some of the better ways to allow a wizard to heal fairly.

1) Cast the spell False Life, BEFORE the battle instead of Curing Moderate wounds after the battle.

2) Use Polymorph/other spells with incidental healing.

3) Use the spell Vampiric Touch to heal yourself in combat.

4) Use the spell Healing Sting to heal others (basically a reverse of Vampiric Touch - you take damage but your friend is healed).

5) Use Simbuls' Systanodweomer to very inefficiently heal your allies (Lets you use up other spells/slots to convert them into healing. When you cast this spell and also burn a 6th level spell, you get 6d6 of healing)

6) Take the feat Arcane Disciple to legally let your Wizard learn Heal spells.

7) Get a cohort that can heal.

8) Summon a monster that can heal (Unicorn)

9) Have someone take a single level of Bard/Cleric/Druid/Ranger/Paladin and use scrolls/wands/staves

10) Take a Prestige Class that lets you heal

11) Buy a ring of Regeneration, or just a LOT of healing potions

12) Cast Limited Wish/Miracle and duplicate a healing spell

etc. etc.

---------------------------

(Note, as others noted, the fact that Bards can make Healing scrolls does NOT allow Wizards or Sorcerors to use those scrolls or learn the spells. You can only learn a spell if it is on your list, when people make new spells they are suppossed to put it on all appropriate lists).

Any one of these 12 legal methods are fine.

There is no need to start break the clear rules, screwing with both balance and roleplaying to let Wizards cast healing spells directly. Are you that much a power gamer that none of these methods are 'powerfull' enough for you? Then you are not just a 'Power gamer" and don't be surprised if a house slams down into on of the NPC female spellcasters in your game, killing her, and a girl with a little dog comes out and steals her red ruby slippers.
Lord shadow35
09-01-05, 11:37 AM Extra spell will get a a spell any spell. Read the feat it will work. Technically by the rules this can work. But i see what the cry baby's say as far a wizard a being able to heal. it disrupts game balance.
gorion
09-01-05, 11:42 AM Tarking forgot the simpliest way.

Use Magic Devices.
Then grab a wand or a scroll of whatever healing spell you like ;)
Lord shadow35
09-01-05, 11:58 AM The cool thing is lormaster gives you UMD. I thought that was cool.
MadRaccoon
09-01-05, 12:06 PM The "Light of Venya." spell allows you to heal with arcane spells. More details would be a violation of copyright, but it can be found in the Planar Handbook p100 and is a perfectly "legal" wizard/sorcerer healing method, although not anywhere close to as effective as a cure X spell.
tarkin
09-01-05, 12:10 PM <SNIP>

Extra Spell is clearly worded, it does NOT let a wizard cast cure spells, unless you use a lot of House Rules. It lets you learn any spell, but does not put spells on your spell list.

To cast a spell you need: 1) To know the spell. 2) To have the spell on your list. 3) To have an Int/Charisma/Wisdom high enough to cast the spell. 4) To have the spell prepared or have an unused slot. 5) To be high enough level to cast the spell.

Just as a wizard with an int of 12 can not cast a 3rd level spell, and a wizard of level 1 can not cast a wish, and a wizard who has cast all his spells can not cast another spell, if you don't have the spell on your list, you can't cast it.

If you house rule to let Extra Spell do this, you have LOTS of additional problems. Look at the Bard spells, particularly Otto's Irresitable Dance, a 6th level Bard spell, as compared to an 8th level Wizard spell. And there are lots of Bard ONLY spells that are also equivelent to Wizard spells of 8th level.

Strict Game: Extra spell does not put the spell on your list,you can't cast it.

Loose Game: Exttra Spell does not put the spell on your list, you can't cast it.

Power Game: Your Dm is likely to House Rule to let you use Extra Spell to cast spells not on your list, but expect him to outlaw blatant abuses such as spells on the Bard list (or similar odd spell casting classes/prestige classes).

Anything Goes Game: Ignore the rules and logic, Extra spell lets you learn and cast ANY spell, even a Bard spell. Best abuse, I mean rule, in the world. Lets a 13th level Wizard cast an 8th level spell as only a 6th level spell.
Zherog
09-01-05, 12:58 PM They group have no bard, or any divine spell casters. Curing is pretty much done entirely with Cure potions. Sooner or later though, they find themselves in an environment where it's hard to aquire these potions... :schemes:

No Rangers or Paladins? Even one level dips? All it takes is one level in any class that has the spell to be able to use wands.
Lord Schpungus
09-01-05, 02:57 PM you mean this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=490402

but i doubt that the feat works the way you like it to work

And I Doubt that the feat is limited to working in your narrow, nerfatic way. So we're even. Nyah.
Odin_666
09-01-05, 06:05 PM And I Doubt that the feat is limited to working in your narrow, nerfatic way. So we're even. Nyah.

No, I have tarkin on my side :P ;) :D
Lord Schpungus
09-01-05, 09:31 PM I easily count for more than you and tarkin together.

[/hubris]
:D :dancin:
Whatever.
runestar
09-01-05, 09:52 PM Here we go again......
Molitor
09-01-05, 10:32 PM Given that vampiric touch only gives you temp hp, I wouldnt exactly call it healing. I wish they would have left that spell alone. The 2nd edition version was much better, IMO.
Oh yes, I had forgotten that you are one of the people I respect on these boards. You understand the backbone of what is D&D.

I miss the old school.....

:weep:
smrtgmp
09-01-05, 11:01 PM Oh yes, I had forgotten that you are one of the people I respect on these boards. You understand the backbone of what is D&D.Thanks :) That actaully cheers me up a bit after a crappy day.

I miss the old school.....I'm with you there, at least in part. There are a lot of things about the new system that I prefer to the old (the mechanics are certainly less clunky), but I feel like a lot of the changes that were made were unessesary. Vampiric touch certainly falls into that category.
Molitor
09-02-05, 12:55 AM Thanks :) That actaully cheers me up a bit after a crappy day.

I'm with you there, at least in part. There are a lot of things about the new system that I prefer to the old (the mechanics are certainly less clunky), but I feel like a lot of the changes that were made were unessesary. Vampiric touch certainly falls into that category.
How about bringing back spells belonging to more than one school? I miss that.

By the way, the compliment is well placed. I remember your post on how to make an effective enchanter. You employ sound tactics.
Seeker95
09-02-05, 03:45 PM I remember your post on how to make an effective enchanter. You employ sound tactics.Since when do enchanters use [sonic] spells? :P
Pryrates
09-02-05, 04:00 PM If your looking for a means of allowing a wizard or sorcerer to heal then have him/her learn the Simbul's Synostodweomer from magic of faerun. Basiclly lose two spell slots to heal 1d6/ spell slot level of the 2nd lost slot.
Molitor
09-02-05, 09:24 PM Since when do enchanters use [sonic] spells? :P
HAHAHAHA!!!! I didn't even realize that pun.

Good one Seeker95.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Baned 08-31-05, 11:11 PM	I've been thinking, if you have a Bard who knows Cure Light Wounds, and he scribes a scroll of it. Can the party Wizard copy this spell to his spellbook, since they are both Arcane?
High Octane 08-31-05, 11:17 PM	By the RAW no. Its really up to your DM since they say that you can add spells "Not in the players handbook" (along those lines). In my campaign, I would say no way. It would completely eliminate the usefulness of a cleric. Its a huge step allowing healing spells for a wizard or sorcerer. Edit: Also, bard spells cannot be put into a wizards spellbook, since they are not the same spell list.
Joanem 08-31-05, 11:29 PM	If you look in the DMG in the section with all of the Wizard scrolls you'll see Heal scrolls so i don't see why you can't copy the scroll into your spell book ;)
tharivol266 08-31-05, 11:30 PM	well since a wizard can research spells and make new one(with dm;s consent) it is feesable that there could be a way to modify the cure series to be on the wiz/sor list.
Rake 08-31-05, 11:38 PM	If you look in the DMG in the section with all of the Wizard scrolls you'll see Heal scrolls so i don't see why you can't copy the scroll into your spell book ;) You misunderstand the entry. Those aren't wizard scrolls, those are arcane scrolls. The only way for a wizard to cast a cure spell (unless your DM is reallllly nice) is to use an Eternal Wand (from Ebberon) crafted by a bard.
Gurv 08-31-05, 11:47 PM	Correct. Just because something is an arcane spell does not mean that it is a wizard spell. Bards, wizards, and sorcerers cast arcane spells. But bards cannot cast every spell that a wizard or sorcerer can, and there are a few spells that bards have access to that wizards do not. Cure spells are an example of such spells: just because they exist in an arcane form does not mean that wizards can use them.
Molitor 08-31-05, 11:52 PM	I've been thinking, if you have a Bard who knows Cure Light Wounds, and he scribes a scroll of it. Can the party Wizard copy this spell to his spellbook, since they are both Arcane? Yes it's called summon monster followed by vampiric touch.
Rake 08-31-05, 11:57 PM	Yes it's called summon monster followed by vampiric touch. Just a tad inefficient, but yeah, it technically works.
Baned 09-01-05, 12:11 AM	Hmm, I may just houserule it. I'm the DM in this group, by the way. The players haven't suggested it, or probably even thought of it. Just an idea I had. They group have no bard, or any divine spell casters. Curing is pretty much done entirely with Cure potions. Sooner or later though, they find themselves in an environment where it's hard to aquire these potions... :schemes:
Molitor 09-01-05, 12:26 AM	Just a tad inefficient, but yeah, it technically works. Yes, as a DM I would never let a player get past the "wizards should be able to heal with spells" arguement. Although with some summoned monsters you could have them heal you.
rks 09-01-05, 03:27 AM	The Arcane Disciple-feat from Complete Arcane (or was it C Divine?) gives an arcane caster access to one domain of the patron deity. These spells could be cure-spells or whatever from a domain. The sad part is that these spells can only be used once every day, per spell level.
smrtgmp 09-01-05, 04:48 AM	It was Complete Divine. There are other ways as well, though they are somewhat limited in their scope. 1) limited wish can duplicate 5th level and lower spells from other spell lists. Heal is a 5th level adept spell. The 300xp cost might make you think twice, but its less xp than you would lose if you died. 2) the arcane disciple feat, as was mentioned above. 3) the recaster (from races of eberron) allows you to add any two spells to your spell list. 4) if you go all the way in rainbow adept (PrC from CD) you gain access to the cleric spell list. I'm sure there are other options, but its late and I'm tired. Hope that helped. :)
smrtgmp 09-01-05, 04:50 AM	Yes it's called summon monster followed by vampiric touch.Given that vampiric touch only gives you temp hp, I wouldnt exactly call it healing. I wish they would have left that spell alone. The 2nd edition version was much better, IMO.
Nayk 09-01-05, 08:31 AM	Have a look to the extra spell feat (don't know where), it was mentionned in a similar thread about clerics/druids casting wizards spells. It's actually not far from this thread so you should have a look at it. Nayk
Odin_666 09-01-05, 09:28 AM	you mean this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=490402 but i doubt that the feat works the way you like it to work
runestar 09-01-05, 10:22 AM	Doesn't the DMG section on researching spells have a little section suggesting that wizards be discouraged from researching heal spells or something?
Seeker95 09-01-05, 10:41 AM	They group have no bard, or any divine spell casters. Curing is pretty much done entirely with Cure potions. Sooner or later though, they find themselves in an environment where it's hard to aquire these potions... Do not hand the wizard direct access to cure spells. Don't give them a fix for a problem they chose to create for themselves. In choosing not to have a cure-casting character in the party, they have decided to take the risk. They will buy the potions, maybe take some levels in UMD and buy wands of cure light wounds and otherwise make things work. They can also get cohorts and hirelings. There are many ways around the problem. Do not make up a new one simply because they chose the classes they have.
tarkin 09-01-05, 11:14 AM	Seeker95 is correct. Here are some of the better ways to allow a wizard to heal fairly. 1) Cast the spell False Life, BEFORE the battle instead of Curing Moderate wounds after the battle. 2) Use Polymorph/other spells with incidental healing. 3) Use the spell Vampiric Touch to heal yourself in combat. 4) Use the spell Healing Sting to heal others (basically a reverse of Vampiric Touch - you take damage but your friend is healed). 5) Use Simbuls' Systanodweomer to very inefficiently heal your allies (Lets you use up other spells/slots to convert them into healing. When you cast this spell and also burn a 6th level spell, you get 6d6 of healing) 6) Take the feat Arcane Disciple to legally let your Wizard learn Heal spells. 7) Get a cohort that can heal. 8) Summon a monster that can heal (Unicorn) 9) Have someone take a single level of Bard/Cleric/Druid/Ranger/Paladin and use scrolls/wands/staves 10) Take a Prestige Class that lets you heal 11) Buy a ring of Regeneration, or just a LOT of healing potions 12) Cast Limited Wish/Miracle and duplicate a healing spell etc. etc. --------------------------- (Note, as others noted, the fact that Bards can make Healing scrolls does NOT allow Wizards or Sorcerors to use those scrolls or learn the spells. You can only learn a spell if it is on your list, when people make new spells they are suppossed to put it on all appropriate lists). Any one of these 12 legal methods are fine. There is no need to start break the clear rules, screwing with both balance and roleplaying to let Wizards cast healing spells directly. Are you that much a power gamer that none of these methods are 'powerfull' enough for you? Then you are not just a 'Power gamer" and don't be surprised if a house slams down into on of the NPC female spellcasters in your game, killing her, and a girl with a little dog comes out and steals her red ruby slippers.
Lord shadow35 09-01-05, 11:37 AM	Extra spell will get a a spell any spell. Read the feat it will work. Technically by the rules this can work. But i see what the cry baby's say as far a wizard a being able to heal. it disrupts game balance.
gorion 09-01-05, 11:42 AM	Tarking forgot the simpliest way. Use Magic Devices. Then grab a wand or a scroll of whatever healing spell you like ;)
Lord shadow35 09-01-05, 11:58 AM	The cool thing is lormaster gives you UMD. I thought that was cool.
MadRaccoon 09-01-05, 12:06 PM	The "Light of Venya." spell allows you to heal with arcane spells. More details would be a violation of copyright, but it can be found in the Planar Handbook p100 and is a perfectly "legal" wizard/sorcerer healing method, although not anywhere close to as effective as a cure X spell.
tarkin 09-01-05, 12:10 PM	<SNIP> Extra Spell is clearly worded, it does NOT let a wizard cast cure spells, unless you use a lot of House Rules. It lets you learn any spell, but does not put spells on your spell list. To cast a spell you need: 1) To know the spell. 2) To have the spell on your list. 3) To have an Int/Charisma/Wisdom high enough to cast the spell. 4) To have the spell prepared or have an unused slot. 5) To be high enough level to cast the spell. Just as a wizard with an int of 12 can not cast a 3rd level spell, and a wizard of level 1 can not cast a wish, and a wizard who has cast all his spells can not cast another spell, if you don't have the spell on your list, you can't cast it. If you house rule to let Extra Spell do this, you have LOTS of additional problems. Look at the Bard spells, particularly Otto's Irresitable Dance, a 6th level Bard spell, as compared to an 8th level Wizard spell. And there are lots of Bard ONLY spells that are also equivelent to Wizard spells of 8th level. Strict Game: Extra spell does not put the spell on your list,you can't cast it. Loose Game: Exttra Spell does not put the spell on your list, you can't cast it. Power Game: Your Dm is likely to House Rule to let you use Extra Spell to cast spells not on your list, but expect him to outlaw blatant abuses such as spells on the Bard list (or similar odd spell casting classes/prestige classes). Anything Goes Game: Ignore the rules and logic, Extra spell lets you learn and cast ANY spell, even a Bard spell. Best abuse, I mean rule, in the world. Lets a 13th level Wizard cast an 8th level spell as only a 6th level spell.
Zherog 09-01-05, 12:58 PM	They group have no bard, or any divine spell casters. Curing is pretty much done entirely with Cure potions. Sooner or later though, they find themselves in an environment where it's hard to aquire these potions... :schemes: No Rangers or Paladins? Even one level dips? All it takes is one level in any class that has the spell to be able to use wands.
Lord Schpungus 09-01-05, 02:57 PM	you mean this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=490402 but i doubt that the feat works the way you like it to work And I Doubt that the feat is limited to working in your narrow, nerfatic way. So we're even. Nyah.
Odin_666 09-01-05, 06:05 PM	And I Doubt that the feat is limited to working in your narrow, nerfatic way. So we're even. Nyah. No, I have tarkin on my side :P ;) :D
Lord Schpungus 09-01-05, 09:31 PM	I easily count for more than you and tarkin together. [/hubris] :D :dancin: Whatever.
runestar 09-01-05, 09:52 PM	Here we go again......
Molitor 09-01-05, 10:32 PM	Given that vampiric touch only gives you temp hp, I wouldnt exactly call it healing. I wish they would have left that spell alone. The 2nd edition version was much better, IMO. Oh yes, I had forgotten that you are one of the people I respect on these boards. You understand the backbone of what is D&D. I miss the old school..... :weep:
smrtgmp 09-01-05, 11:01 PM	Oh yes, I had forgotten that you are one of the people I respect on these boards. You understand the backbone of what is D&D.Thanks :) That actaully cheers me up a bit after a crappy day. I miss the old school.....I'm with you there, at least in part. There are a lot of things about the new system that I prefer to the old (the mechanics are certainly less clunky), but I feel like a lot of the changes that were made were unessesary. Vampiric touch certainly falls into that category.
Molitor 09-02-05, 12:55 AM	Thanks :) That actaully cheers me up a bit after a crappy day. I'm with you there, at least in part. There are a lot of things about the new system that I prefer to the old (the mechanics are certainly less clunky), but I feel like a lot of the changes that were made were unessesary. Vampiric touch certainly falls into that category. How about bringing back spells belonging to more than one school? I miss that. By the way, the compliment is well placed. I remember your post on how to make an effective enchanter. You employ sound tactics.
Seeker95 09-02-05, 03:45 PM	I remember your post on how to make an effective enchanter. You employ sound tactics.Since when do enchanters use [sonic] spells? :P
Pryrates 09-02-05, 04:00 PM	If your looking for a means of allowing a wizard or sorcerer to heal then have him/her learn the Simbul's Synostodweomer from magic of faerun. Basiclly lose two spell slots to heal 1d6/ spell slot level of the 2nd lost slot.
Molitor 09-02-05, 09:24 PM	Since when do enchanters use [sonic] spells? :P HAHAHAHA!!!! I didn't even realize that pun. Good one Seeker95.