Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Skye Silverleaf 07-20-06, 09:22 AM	The spell description does not say that this is a strictly personal spell (as opposed to Disguise Self, for example). The sorceror in my party wants to cast this spell on the party's bard, who is attempting to gain entry to a clandestine location. He wants the bard to be able to glean the password from the mind of the doorman, as he feels that it would be top of mind when asking about it (on this point I agree with the player). I just need to know whether the spell can be cast on the bard by the sorceror.
Seeker95 07-20-06, 09:37 AM	According to the SRD entry, it is a personal spell by nature of the opening sentence: "You detect surface thoughts. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area or subject." A houserule could easily allow this spell to be cast on someone else, enabling them to detect thoughts, but as written, it is caster only. Such a houserule would not be unreasonable or unbalancing, in my opinion.
Skye Silverleaf 07-21-06, 11:36 AM	Thanks, you've given me something to think about. I'll consider house-ruling it, although I generally try to avoid doing that. The only current standing house-rule in my game is that Comprehend Languages also allows you to speak as well as understand. Thanks again!
Zherog 07-21-06, 11:51 AM	Detect thoughts can't provide somebody else the benefits. When you cast the spell, the target you select determines whose thoughts you'll be reading. If the spell allowed you to grant the ability to somebody else, the target entry would say otherwise.
Vegepygmy 07-22-06, 12:47 AM	When you cast the spell, the target you select determines whose thoughts you'll be reading. If the spell allowed you to grant the ability to somebody else, the target entry would say otherwise.What "target entry"? The spell doesn't have one. Nor do you select a target when you cast the spell. You cast the spell, you point the cone-shaped emanation in a particular direction, and you (1st round) detect the presence or absence of conscious creatures with Int scores of 1 or better. If you don't know what you're talking about, it's probably better not to try and answer other people's questions.
Seeker95 07-23-06, 05:16 PM	Vegepygmy, I'm not sure what hallucinogen you had in yourm post-toasties this morning, but your answer, tone and target all indicate that you had something in there. Not only did you completely miss the boat on what Zherog said, but you managed to repeat it back with exactly the same meaning. Then you decided to turn your mimic answer into an insult. How hope you're hungry. The crow you need to eat is almost as large as the apology you owe Zherog.
Zherog 07-24-06, 10:20 AM	Let's try it again, Veg. I'll type slowly. If the spell allowed you to bestow the thought detectingness onto some other person, the entry would include a "Target:" line. As you so eloquently pointed out in your post :bored: , detect thoughts doesn't have a target line.
Vegepygmy 07-24-06, 03:17 PM	Vegepygmy, I'm not sure what hallucinogen you had in yourm post-toasties this morning, but your answer, tone and target all indicate that you had something in there. Not only did you completely miss the boat on what Zherog said, but you managed to repeat it back with exactly the same meaning. Then you decided to turn your mimic answer into an insult. How hope you're hungry. The crow you need to eat is almost as large as the apology you owe Zherog.Oh, irony...thy name is Internet. Even though Zherog recognizes that detect thoughts lacks a "Target:" line, he writes: "When you cast the spell, the target you select..." So I'll say it again: you do not select any target when you cast detect thoughts. You do not determine "whose thoughts you'll be reading" when you cast the spell; you do that, if ever, only on the third round you concentrate on a given area. That you think my response simply mirrored Zherog's tell us all a great deal about your reading comprehension skills. Now, here's that tasty helping of crow you offered. Have a bite.
Echo_that_Pains 07-24-06, 03:44 PM	Oh, irony...thy name is Internet. Even though Zherog recognizes that detect thoughts lacks a "Target:" line, he writes: "When you cast the spell, the target you select..." So I'll say it again: you do not select any target when you cast detect thoughts. You do not determine "whose thoughts you'll be reading" when you cast the spell; you do that, if ever, only on the third round you concentrate on a given area. I think you are taking what was said too specifically. You are correct when you say that there is no specific target. That being said, each player that casts this spell must have a target *said or unsaid* that they wish to detect thoughts on before they cast the spell. Even though this spell is a cone (or whatever, i dont have PHB in front of me right now) the reason that a player would cast it in the first place would be to read the thoughts of a specific person. As the OP said, the bard wants to get the password from the doorman. In this instance the doorman is the "target" even though there is no specific target needed. You must first have a target that you wish to detect thoughts before you can in fact detect that person's thoughts.
Vegepygmy 07-24-06, 07:08 PM	I think you are taking what was said too specifically.Possibly. However, when the very issue being discussed is "who can be the beneficiary of this spell?", it seems to me that it's important to be as specific as possible about how it is "targeted." I felt Zherog's response was more likely to add to the confusion than it was to clarify why you can't cast detect thoughts on someone else, so I came down rather hard on him. I'm sure it would have been better if I'd expressed myself more delicately. On the other hand, a great many of the "disagreements" that erupt on these boards could be avoided if people made more of an effort to be precise with their words. You are correct when you say that there is no specific target. That being said, each player that casts this spell must have a target *said or unsaid* that they wish to detect thoughts on before they cast the spell.Okay, I'm going to get all "specific" on you. There is absolutely no requirement that the caster have an intended target before he casts the spell. In fact, one of the most effective ways to use detect thoughts is to scan an apparently empty room (or other area) for hidden/invisible creatures. You must first have a target that you wish to detect thoughts before you can in fact detect that person's thoughts.Now that is a statement I don't have any problem with! :)
Seeker95 07-24-06, 10:18 PM	On the other hand, a great many of the "disagreements" that erupt on these boards could be avoided if people made more of an effort to be precise with their words.Truer words are rarely spoken. And in this case, all too ignored by the speaker. Trying to prove you have a bigger stick than Zherog has no relevance or purpose in attempting to clarify the matter. Your answer showed less of a concern for clarification and more of an effort at one-upsmanship. That you closed with your insult rather than clarification further demonstrates this. So while your knowledge may have been accurate (however poorly expressed), your intentions seemed far more insulting in nature.
Skye Silverleaf 07-25-06, 08:58 AM	Uhhhhh...................guys........... .......... The question was already answered by Seeker95 in the very first response. I guess it's my fault for asking a dumb question in the first place. :weep:
Zherog 07-25-06, 12:54 PM	It wasn't a dumb question, Skye. :)
shruggar 07-25-06, 03:32 PM	Even if you could: <Gaurd> What's the password?! <Player> Uhhh [pause for 18 seconds] <Gaurd> Get out of here! <Player> No wait, I know it! [*gaurd chucks player into the street*] What you want to do is: - Somebody Disguises themselves - Said somebody goes up to gaurd for entry - You hide nearby and cast Detect Thoughts, while the somebody stalls the gaurd with small-talk - Gaurd says "what's the password?" - You Message the somebody the password