Can familiars use wands? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can familiars use wands? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Karavac
02-25-07, 10:05 AM We have had a bit of a heated debate here (http://p073.ezboard.com/fforgottenrealms74875frm2.showMessage?to picID=343.topic) on this topic. What do m'lurned friends make of the matter?
EvilVegan
02-25-07, 10:11 AM If the master has ranks in UMD and it can hold it.
cwslyclgh
02-25-07, 11:50 AM the familair has no spell list of its own, and thus would need to use UMD to activate the wand, as EV says I would also require that the familair be able to hold the wand as well (in something other then its mouth) but would tend to be fairly leniant in this area, I would not say that the thing needs to hold it exactly like a human would.
EvilVegan
02-25-07, 12:38 PM I'd say they could hold it in their mouth if it didn't have a verbal component. . . but still that's a house rule.

I don't think wands require any components, verbal, somatic, or otherwise though.

I also think a cat wearing a special suit to carry/use wands would be cute/funny. Reminds me of an old SNL commercial.
Kursk
02-25-07, 01:15 PM the familair has no spell list of its own, and thus would need to use UMD to activate the wand, as EV says I would also require that the familair be able to hold the wand as well (in something other then its mouth) but would tend to be fairly leniant in this area, I would not say that the thing needs to hold it exactly like a human would.

Also, if the Wand requires a command word the the familiar would need to speak it.
kjenks
02-25-07, 01:19 PM My sorceress, Stella, has maximum cross-class ranks in Use Magic Device (9 ranks), so her raven familiar, Cranzer, sometimes uses a wand. Twice now, the raven has stabilized dying party members with Cure * Wounds wands.
Seeker95
02-25-07, 08:08 PM Also, if the Wand requires a command word.Are there wands that do not?
Kursk
02-25-07, 09:24 PM Are there wands that do not?

Not that I can think of...
risner
02-25-07, 09:36 PM We have had a bit of a heated debate here (http://p073.ezboard.com/fforgottenrealms74875frm2.showMessage?to picID=343.topic) on this topic. What do m'lurned friends make of the matter?

Are you serious?

No, a familiar can not use a wand.

To use a Wand you need to be a caster with the spell on a class list (which a familiar can not be) or have ranks in UMD (which a familiar likely can not have.)

The familiar would need to be able to speak, and a bird is listed as only being able to squak (and not speak.)
Ogre4Hire
02-25-07, 11:34 PM If the Master has ranks in UMD, the familiar can use the skill as well. If the Master takes Familiar Spell (which is a high level or Epic level feat somewhere), which actually grants the Familiar a limited number of low level spells, the Familiar would then be able to use Wands (and Scrolls, for that matter). If it's not a Raven or an Improved Familiar that has the ability to speak, just cast Tongues on it.
obrysii
02-25-07, 11:37 PM The familiar would need to be able to speak, and a bird is listed as only being able to squak (and not speak.)

What about the Raven?
Fireclave
02-25-07, 11:40 PM Familiar Spell technically doesn't grant your familiar spells. It grants the familiar spell-like abilities, so no dice. It would still need ranks in UMD or somehow gain access to some actual spellcasting.
Traevanon
02-25-07, 11:43 PM Keep in mind that most familiars also have an Intelligence under 10 so even if a spell is on their list they will likely not be able to use a wand of it without UMD.
Limousine_Liberal
02-25-07, 11:53 PM Are you serious?

No, a familiar can not use a wand.

To use a Wand you need to be a caster with the spell on a class list (which a familiar can not be) or have ranks in UMD (which a familiar likely can not have.)

The familiar would need to be able to speak, and a bird is listed as only being able to squak (and not speak.)

But the feat Improved Familiar (imp/quasit/etc) is looking a lot better now, though, for those wizards with UMD ranks.
EvilVegan
02-26-07, 09:14 AM To use a Wand you need to be a caster with the spell on a class list (which a familiar can not be) or have ranks in UMD (which a familiar likely can not have.)

"For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master’s skill ranks, whichever are better." -SRD

The familiar would need to be able to speak, and a bird is listed as only being able to squak (and not speak.)

"A raven familiar can speak one language of its master’s choice as a supernatural ability." -SRD

So yes, I think that he was serious.
mugguod
02-26-07, 09:36 AM Wands are spell-trigger devices. They can be used by anybody with ranks in Use Magic Device that knows (can provide) the trigger. The trigger is usually a command word. So most familiars would not be able the speak the command word. However, the owner could use the Wand of Cure * Wounds from a distance (I can't remember the max distance)and have the familiar touch the injured man.
EvilVegan
02-26-07, 11:22 AM A wand requires a spoken word.

The familiar would have to be in contact with the wizard for him to accept the touch spell, and then he can deliver it normally.

"Activation
Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole."- SRD

AND

"Spell Trigger

Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. "-SRD
risner
02-26-07, 02:00 PM What about the Raven?

The WotC official stance on wild birds is their only language is "Squawk" (PHB), so unless the Raven is listed as "Languages: Common", it can not speak.

(Or it seems being a familiar grants supernatural ability to speak.)

So based on the UMD using the Wizard's ranks and the Raven speaking if a Familiar, you are only left with the last problem of "how does a raven manipulate the wand to activate it without a hand."
Vegepygmy
02-26-07, 02:08 PM Keep in mind that most familiars also have an Intelligence under 10 so even if a spell is on their list they will likely not be able to use a wand of it without UMD.Wands are spell trigger items and do not require any particular ability score as spell completion items (such as scrolls) do.
EvilVegan
02-26-07, 02:15 PM . . .you are only left with the last problem of "how does a raven manipulate the wand to activate it without a hand."

'E could grip it by the husk!

Crows can point sticks at people with their feets. Wands are specifically only required to be pointed in the general direction of the target.
MarkL
02-26-07, 03:43 PM 'E could grip it by the husk!

shame on you!
Sildatorak
02-26-07, 06:06 PM So based on the UMD using the Wizard's ranks and the Raven speaking if a Familiar, you are only left with the last problem of "how does a raven manipulate the wand to activate it without a hand."
With his creepy little bird feet.
To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Karavac 02-25-07, 10:05 AM	We have had a bit of a heated debate here (http://p073.ezboard.com/fforgottenrealms74875frm2.showMessage?to picID=343.topic) on this topic. What do m'lurned friends make of the matter?
EvilVegan 02-25-07, 10:11 AM	If the master has ranks in UMD and it can hold it.
cwslyclgh 02-25-07, 11:50 AM	the familair has no spell list of its own, and thus would need to use UMD to activate the wand, as EV says I would also require that the familair be able to hold the wand as well (in something other then its mouth) but would tend to be fairly leniant in this area, I would not say that the thing needs to hold it exactly like a human would.
EvilVegan 02-25-07, 12:38 PM	I'd say they could hold it in their mouth if it didn't have a verbal component. . . but still that's a house rule. I don't think wands require any components, verbal, somatic, or otherwise though. I also think a cat wearing a special suit to carry/use wands would be cute/funny. Reminds me of an old SNL commercial.
Kursk 02-25-07, 01:15 PM	the familair has no spell list of its own, and thus would need to use UMD to activate the wand, as EV says I would also require that the familair be able to hold the wand as well (in something other then its mouth) but would tend to be fairly leniant in this area, I would not say that the thing needs to hold it exactly like a human would. Also, if the Wand requires a command word the the familiar would need to speak it.
kjenks 02-25-07, 01:19 PM	My sorceress, Stella, has maximum cross-class ranks in Use Magic Device (9 ranks), so her raven familiar, Cranzer, sometimes uses a wand. Twice now, the raven has stabilized dying party members with Cure * Wounds wands.
Seeker95 02-25-07, 08:08 PM	Also, if the Wand requires a command word.Are there wands that do not?
Kursk 02-25-07, 09:24 PM	Are there wands that do not? Not that I can think of...
risner 02-25-07, 09:36 PM	We have had a bit of a heated debate here (http://p073.ezboard.com/fforgottenrealms74875frm2.showMessage?to picID=343.topic) on this topic. What do m'lurned friends make of the matter? Are you serious? No, a familiar can not use a wand. To use a Wand you need to be a caster with the spell on a class list (which a familiar can not be) or have ranks in UMD (which a familiar likely can not have.) The familiar would need to be able to speak, and a bird is listed as only being able to squak (and not speak.)
Ogre4Hire 02-25-07, 11:34 PM	If the Master has ranks in UMD, the familiar can use the skill as well. If the Master takes Familiar Spell (which is a high level or Epic level feat somewhere), which actually grants the Familiar a limited number of low level spells, the Familiar would then be able to use Wands (and Scrolls, for that matter). If it's not a Raven or an Improved Familiar that has the ability to speak, just cast Tongues on it.
obrysii 02-25-07, 11:37 PM	The familiar would need to be able to speak, and a bird is listed as only being able to squak (and not speak.) What about the Raven?
Fireclave 02-25-07, 11:40 PM	Familiar Spell technically doesn't grant your familiar spells. It grants the familiar spell-like abilities, so no dice. It would still need ranks in UMD or somehow gain access to some actual spellcasting.
Traevanon 02-25-07, 11:43 PM	Keep in mind that most familiars also have an Intelligence under 10 so even if a spell is on their list they will likely not be able to use a wand of it without UMD.
Limousine_Liberal 02-25-07, 11:53 PM	Are you serious? No, a familiar can not use a wand. To use a Wand you need to be a caster with the spell on a class list (which a familiar can not be) or have ranks in UMD (which a familiar likely can not have.) The familiar would need to be able to speak, and a bird is listed as only being able to squak (and not speak.) But the feat Improved Familiar (imp/quasit/etc) is looking a lot better now, though, for those wizards with UMD ranks.
EvilVegan 02-26-07, 09:14 AM	To use a Wand you need to be a caster with the spell on a class list (which a familiar can not be) or have ranks in UMD (which a familiar likely can not have.) "For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master’s skill ranks, whichever are better." -SRD The familiar would need to be able to speak, and a bird is listed as only being able to squak (and not speak.) "A raven familiar can speak one language of its master’s choice as a supernatural ability." -SRD So yes, I think that he was serious.
mugguod 02-26-07, 09:36 AM	Wands are spell-trigger devices. They can be used by anybody with ranks in Use Magic Device that knows (can provide) the trigger. The trigger is usually a command word. So most familiars would not be able the speak the command word. However, the owner could use the Wand of Cure * Wounds from a distance (I can't remember the max distance)and have the familiar touch the injured man.
EvilVegan 02-26-07, 11:22 AM	A wand requires a spoken word. The familiar would have to be in contact with the wizard for him to accept the touch spell, and then he can deliver it normally. "Activation Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast, however, has a longer casting time than 1 standard action, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole."- SRD AND "Spell Trigger Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. "-SRD
risner 02-26-07, 02:00 PM	What about the Raven? The WotC official stance on wild birds is their only language is "Squawk" (PHB), so unless the Raven is listed as "Languages: Common", it can not speak. (Or it seems being a familiar grants supernatural ability to speak.) So based on the UMD using the Wizard's ranks and the Raven speaking if a Familiar, you are only left with the last problem of "how does a raven manipulate the wand to activate it without a hand."
Vegepygmy 02-26-07, 02:08 PM	Keep in mind that most familiars also have an Intelligence under 10 so even if a spell is on their list they will likely not be able to use a wand of it without UMD.Wands are spell trigger items and do not require any particular ability score as spell completion items (such as scrolls) do.
EvilVegan 02-26-07, 02:15 PM	. . .you are only left with the last problem of "how does a raven manipulate the wand to activate it without a hand." 'E could grip it by the husk! Crows can point sticks at people with their feets. Wands are specifically only required to be pointed in the general direction of the target.
MarkL 02-26-07, 03:43 PM	'E could grip it by the husk! shame on you!
Sildatorak 02-26-07, 06:06 PM	So based on the UMD using the Wizard's ranks and the Raven speaking if a Familiar, you are only left with the last problem of "how does a raven manipulate the wand to activate it without a hand." With his creepy little bird feet. To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures)