Can fire-based spells be cast underwater? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can fire-based spells be cast underwater? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Vrellum
06-18-04, 11:44 PM I'm wondering if fire spells can be used under water. Another player cast flame strike the other day and said with a such and such spell craft check it would work fine, but I don't see the listing on the spell craft chart. Specifically I'm wondering if wall of fire will work, but I guess it might not matter too much
Lawrence
06-19-04, 12:27 AM Some spells, being they're instantaneous, will work underwater despite. I would alternate by saying any fire spells that are strictly attack (which would include flamestrike) become superheated water like some breath weapons become underwater, so it's still fire and holy damage.

spells that aren't instantaneously damaging, like a ball of flame or whatever you hold in hand, wouldn't really work I would say. but I'm not certain.
Elhalyn
06-19-04, 01:53 AM Water affects fire spells in two ways:

1st: spells of spell-like abilities with the fire descriptor don't usually work underwater, except if the caster makes a Spellcraft check with the a DC=20+spell level (IIRC).

In case of sucess, the spell creates a bubble of overheated steam.

In case of failure, the spell simply fails.

2nd, the surface of water blocks line of effect against Fire descriptor spells. So that a person above the water can never cast a fireball in someone underwater, or vice versa.
Hblast
06-19-04, 03:55 AM you might remember correctly... but those are 2nd edition rules.

in 3rd edition (or 3.5) it specifically states at each and every spell wether or not it can be used underwater.

Flaming sphere may seem like it doesn't say, but that states that water puts it out, so they all have some wording to it... as for fireball, I'd say that if you stick your finger (with the fireball on it) in the water and THEN fire it, it'd reach the target, since the environment doesn't change too drastically, if you fire it from outside the water into it, it might burst upon impact with the water's surface, since that surface is stronger than the water itself (sumfin about molecular bonds, I dunno).

either way, they CAN, unless they SAY they can't (or state what happens upon contact with water). the effects remain unchanged (still fire damage), note though, that the chance of the target catching on fire is probably reduced to 0.
Elhalyn
06-19-04, 04:49 AM you might remember correctly... but those are 2nd edition rules.

Nope. 3.5 DMG pg 93.
Zendu
06-19-04, 05:28 AM Dont apply science to a magic world, youll just get lost.
Pacer
06-19-04, 08:16 AM Under the 3rd Edition Fire Trap it says :'Underwater, this ward deals half damage and creates a large cloud of steam.' So yes, I would say it does damage, just not full.
Vrellum
06-19-04, 11:02 AM So, unless specified otherwise in the spell description, a fire spell functions normally when cast underwater, provided the casts makes a dc 20 spellcraft check? If the check fails, the spell does not work?
Elhalyn
06-19-04, 11:27 AM So, unless specified otherwise in the spell description, a fire spell functions normally when cast underwater, provided the casts makes a dc 20 spellcraft check

The DC is 20+spell level, but otherwise it is exactly as you said.

If the check fails, the spell does not work?

Yup.
Nagol
06-19-04, 11:35 AM From the Underwater combat section in the SRD
Spells or spell-like effects with the fire descriptor are ineffective underwater unless the caster makes a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level). If the check succeeds, the spell creates a bubble of steam instead of its usual fiery effect, but otherwise the spell works as described. A supernatural fire effect is ineffective underwater unless its description states otherwise. The surface of a body of water blocks line of effect for any fire spell. If the caster has made a Spellcraft check to make the fire spell usable underwater, the surface still blocks the spell’s line of effect.
Hblast
06-19-04, 12:29 PM well I'll be fireballed underwater... how could I have missed that one...

You're completely correct, I retract my last statement.
Vrellum
06-19-04, 02:58 PM I've got it. Thanks

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vrellum 06-18-04, 11:44 PM	I'm wondering if fire spells can be used under water. Another player cast flame strike the other day and said with a such and such spell craft check it would work fine, but I don't see the listing on the spell craft chart. Specifically I'm wondering if wall of fire will work, but I guess it might not matter too much
Lawrence 06-19-04, 12:27 AM	Some spells, being they're instantaneous, will work underwater despite. I would alternate by saying any fire spells that are strictly attack (which would include flamestrike) become superheated water like some breath weapons become underwater, so it's still fire and holy damage. spells that aren't instantaneously damaging, like a ball of flame or whatever you hold in hand, wouldn't really work I would say. but I'm not certain.
Elhalyn 06-19-04, 01:53 AM	Water affects fire spells in two ways: 1st: spells of spell-like abilities with the fire descriptor don't usually work underwater, except if the caster makes a Spellcraft check with the a DC=20+spell level (IIRC). In case of sucess, the spell creates a bubble of overheated steam. In case of failure, the spell simply fails. 2nd, the surface of water blocks line of effect against Fire descriptor spells. So that a person above the water can never cast a fireball in someone underwater, or vice versa.
Hblast 06-19-04, 03:55 AM	you might remember correctly... but those are 2nd edition rules. in 3rd edition (or 3.5) it specifically states at each and every spell wether or not it can be used underwater. Flaming sphere may seem like it doesn't say, but that states that water puts it out, so they all have some wording to it... as for fireball, I'd say that if you stick your finger (with the fireball on it) in the water and THEN fire it, it'd reach the target, since the environment doesn't change too drastically, if you fire it from outside the water into it, it might burst upon impact with the water's surface, since that surface is stronger than the water itself (sumfin about molecular bonds, I dunno). either way, they CAN, unless they SAY they can't (or state what happens upon contact with water). the effects remain unchanged (still fire damage), note though, that the chance of the target catching on fire is probably reduced to 0.
Elhalyn 06-19-04, 04:49 AM	you might remember correctly... but those are 2nd edition rules. Nope. 3.5 DMG pg 93.
Zendu 06-19-04, 05:28 AM	Dont apply science to a magic world, youll just get lost.
Pacer 06-19-04, 08:16 AM	Under the 3rd Edition Fire Trap it says :'Underwater, this ward deals half damage and creates a large cloud of steam.' So yes, I would say it does damage, just not full.
Vrellum 06-19-04, 11:02 AM	So, unless specified otherwise in the spell description, a fire spell functions normally when cast underwater, provided the casts makes a dc 20 spellcraft check? If the check fails, the spell does not work?
Elhalyn 06-19-04, 11:27 AM	So, unless specified otherwise in the spell description, a fire spell functions normally when cast underwater, provided the casts makes a dc 20 spellcraft check The DC is 20+spell level, but otherwise it is exactly as you said. If the check fails, the spell does not work? Yup.
Nagol 06-19-04, 11:35 AM	From the Underwater combat section in the SRD Spells or spell-like effects with the fire descriptor are ineffective underwater unless the caster makes a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level). If the check succeeds, the spell creates a bubble of steam instead of its usual fiery effect, but otherwise the spell works as described. A supernatural fire effect is ineffective underwater unless its description states otherwise. The surface of a body of water blocks line of effect for any fire spell. If the caster has made a Spellcraft check to make the fire spell usable underwater, the surface still blocks the spell’s line of effect.
Hblast 06-19-04, 12:29 PM	well I'll be fireballed underwater... how could I have missed that one... You're completely correct, I retract my last statement.
Vrellum 06-19-04, 02:58 PM	I've got it. Thanks