Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pippa 05-05-05, 02:50 PM	Currently, we're playing a campaign situated mostly in desert-like environments. Since the soil there typically consists of tiny grains of sand, with microscopical amounts of space between them, I was wondering if I could use the Gaseous Form spell to move through the ground, underneath an opponent's feet, and thus, reapearing behind him, catch him at unawares or at least help my comrades flanking him. Is this something I shouldn't or couldn't do? Oh, this one just pops up: would a short Gaseous trip through an opponent's nose (going in on the left, comming out the other side) distract him enough to give him a penalty on attack rolls or something? Should be, since Gaseous Form doesn't turn you invisible and it would definitely be an odd sight. Thanks beforehand!
Seeker95 05-05-05, 03:38 PM	On the former question (move through sand) I would not allow it. It makes the spell just a little bit too powerful, relying upon the letter of the rules more than the spirit. On the latter question... this sounds creative enough to allow without being too abusive. There are a few ways I might implement this idea: 1. -2 to all required concentration checks (or force a concentration check as normal) 2. -1 to hit and reflex saves The risk is that the affected target chooses to "ingest" you. :D
Edymnion 05-05-05, 05:12 PM	I don't think I'd really allow either one, sorry :(
tarkin 05-05-05, 05:30 PM	Gaseous Form does not make you invisible. You are "misty" You could use the spell to get a hiding place where there normally is none - make a hide check, no bonus. Or some situations (in a fog), might allow you a bonus to your concealment/hide check. But not you can't "catch them unawares". It might make it easier to get into flanking position however.
Pippa 05-07-05, 05:27 AM	I never said it would make me invisible. But I believe hiding between grains of sand is finding a hiding place were normally there is none - in the desert. After all, Gaseous Form was my first level 3 spell, BECAUSE it had so many possibilities. Although your movement is so-so (10 feet), you can fly, you gain some nice damage reduction and immunities, you can use the spell to sneak in a real effective way past guards and such (moving most silently, probably floating close to the ceiling where no-one expects you), you can escape from a prison cell, avoid traps and whatnot. Whan the wind is blowing from the right direction, you might even float over chasms and such (bit risky though, given possible turbulences). To balance this out, the drawbacks are severe: you can't speak, fight or cast spells, you loose your supernatural abilities, you can't manipulate/activate objects and you're very slow, among other drawbacks. I just want to sharpen the differences between Gaseous Form and Fly, and make the best of my choice. Can't I just assume that not everyone is as creative as my little Gnome character who - by her personality - is bound to do such things as molesting people by crawling up their nose and such? No offence; this is meant as an ordinary question. Is it wrong reasoning like this? Please tell me.
Yaeri 05-07-05, 09:44 AM	Concerning the going through the sand thingy: I wouldn't allow it, unless many other posters here find that a reasonable use of the spell. I can picture someone in gaseous form going throug such a net-thingy with wich you stop musquitoes, at reduced speed. But sand seems too solid to me to move through. It reminds me of the post about moving into someones lungs. The concensus there was that it was too narrow and complicated. That even in gaseous form you could not "overstretch". I'd apply the same thing here. Moving through someone's nose is a very tiny opening but it's not a long "tunnel" so according to the rules -wich let you move through a crack- it's possible. About the penalty for the target: I'd say -2 on to hit rolls. Spellcasters who are casting a spell make a concentration check at a -2 penalty.
Iver Gearsham 05-07-05, 01:56 PM	I like to combo Gaseous Form with Obscuring Mist. Do the Mist first and if you can do GF Meta Silent spell they will never know were you went untill its to late.
Phantom Lord 05-07-05, 02:47 PM	I would not allow you to go through sand, and here's why: when you get right down to it, everything has small spaces in it. Everything. Diamond is the hardest natural substance known to man because its component molecules interlock the best, but there's still some space in there; did you know that there is actually quite a large space (relatively speaking) between the nucleus and its orbiting electrons? I would rule that, in order to be able to pass through a substance, it must be in a pretty contiguous gas state, i.e. air passing through a crack or down into somebody's lungs. The small amount of air trapped in sand (especially the fine, silt-like sand that is commonly found in desert areas) is unable to move around; it's trapped in small pockets here and there.
Bane 05-07-05, 03:11 PM	To put it another way, if someone buried you in sand, would you be able to breathe? If so, then sand is obviously not enough of an impediment to gases to prohibit going through it in gaseous form. If, however, you find that you are unable to breathe whilst buried in sand, I would say that air cannot pass through with enough regularity to make your idea viable.
Loren Pechtel 05-08-05, 12:01 AM	I have no problem with the notion of moving through sand while in gaseous form. However, I would severely reduce your speed. If I was feeling generous I might reduce it to 10% of normal. It's not going to be of any combat use. As the other poster pointed out, you're not going to be able to breathe under sand because you won't be able to pull in enough air. While air can get through it does so slowly--and you will also while you're acting like air.