Can he do that? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can he do that? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jimbo19
02-23-05, 12:10 PM Few days ago my group was playing and our cleric, lvl 12 or 13, whips out a Reverse gravity spell scroll and casts it.

I looked up reverse gravity and it says Sorc/wiz or Druid. Can he do that? When it stipulates Druid can he cast it?

If yes or no, where can i look up the rules about who can cast what from scrolls.

Bothers me cause I am playing the wizard, and just made level 13, and I do not have reverse gravity. Does not bother him in the least that he just threw away a scroll that could have been put into my spellbook. Or could I ? If his version of the spell scroll was from a druid, could i transcribe it into my spellbook?

All cheesy radiant servants need to be shot.
quaiven
02-23-05, 12:19 PM Unless he has access to a domain which grants the spell (and off the top of my head I can't think of any), or has UMD maxed out no he should'nt have been able to cast it.
Veomyr
02-23-05, 12:26 PM It's possible he used Use Magic Device to activate the scroll. He would need, at most, a Wisdom of 18 (not unlikely since he's a cleric), plus a total UMD roll of at least 36 to activate the scroll, assuming it's written by a level 15 druid. At worst, he would also have to roll at least 34 on a prior UMD roll to emulate a 17 intelligence (unless he already has that score).
Natalis
02-23-05, 12:28 PM Nope. It's simply not on his class list of spells that are available to him, and therefore is unable to use the scroll. Whether you are able to use it depends on if the person that created the spells was a druid or a wizard/sorcerer. If he was a druid, you can't use it either.
Jimbo19
02-23-05, 12:30 PM No when I asked him what he was doing he just looked at me like I am an idiot, and said "its a divine scroll."
Veomyr
02-23-05, 01:00 PM Natalis, that would be true so long as he wasn't using his UMD skill. UMD allows him to use a scroll as if the spell was on his list, so long as he makes the rolls.
Heron_Marked_Blade
02-23-05, 01:13 PM No when I asked him what he was doing he just looked at me like I am an idiot, and said "its a divine scroll."
As has been stated, just because it's a divine scroll doesn't mean he can cast it. The spell must be on his Cleric spell list (or on one of his Domain spell lists). The spell in question is not on his cleric spell list; unless he has Druid levels, or a Domain that grants the spell, he has to make a UMD check to activate the scroll (DC 35). Even if it is on his spell list, or domain list, he'd have to make a caster level check to activate the scroll since it's of a level he can't normally cast.

Otherwise you'd have Wizards using scrolls of cure serious wounds, since it's a Bard spell, and therefore arcane, and therefore can't Wizards cast arcane spells? .... :nonono:

Bad Cleric.
Keenath
02-23-05, 01:32 PM Wow, this is so wrong... I mean, just read the DMG or SRD rules for activating a scroll!

Activation: To activate a scroll, a spellcaster must read the spell written on it. Doing so involves several steps and conditions.
...
To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
• The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)

Okay, he meets that requirement. It's a divine scroll with a divine caster.

• The user must have the spell on his or her class list.

Whoops! Can't do it, buddy. Unless Reverse Gravity is a domain spell for this guy, he can NEVER, EVER activate a scroll (or wand, for that matter) that casts it (short of using UMD, as noted above).
Luminous Crayon
02-23-05, 01:38 PM No when I asked him what he was doing he just looked at me like I am an idiot, and said "its a divine scroll."While the looking-at-you-like-an-idiot part is just rude, the fact that it's a divine scroll does mean you could not have copied it into your spellbook, so there's no reason to be upset about that. Wizards can only benefit from Arcane scrolls, when it comes to spellbook writing.
Keenath
02-23-05, 01:47 PM If yes or no, where can i look up the rules about who can cast what from scrolls.

Okay, first, you should be able to find this in the "Magic" chapter of the PHB. It's also specified in the DMG.

Bothers me cause I am playing the wizard, and just made level 13, and I do not have reverse gravity. Does not bother him in the least that he just threw away a scroll that could have been put into my spellbook. Or could I ? If his version of the spell scroll was from a druid, could i transcribe it into my spellbook?

Okay, that's as big a mistake as what the cleric did. Neither of you could've cast the spell -- see rule 1 that I posted above -- and therefore you couldn't have written it into your book either.

Sorry I didn't catch that before; I just glanced at your original post.
smrtgmp
02-23-05, 05:21 PM Is it possible the cleric has the magic domain? If so, he could have used the scroll legaly.
Zherog
02-23-05, 05:38 PM Is it possible the cleric has the magic domain? If so, he could have used the scroll legaly.

That's a very good point. But then, it wouldn't have been a Divine scroll.
smrtgmp
02-23-05, 05:47 PM Thats true. I forgot he said it was a divine scroll. I suppose thats what I get for skimming the thread instead of reading it carefully. :embarrass
SALDAR
02-23-05, 07:25 PM That's a very good point. But then, it wouldn't have been a Divine scroll.

A spell that is a domain spell for a cleric is a divine spell and said cleric could make a divine scroll with Reverse Gravity on it. Domain spells become part of the spell list of the cleric that chooses that domain and all spells on a cleric's spell list are divine spells, no matter their original source or class listings in the spell description.
IMarvinTPA
02-23-05, 07:29 PM I found no domains with Reverse Gravity on them. I keep an extensive list of domains and their deities. If you're a Cleric and you want to reverse gravity, your SOL.

IMarv
okpokalypse
02-23-05, 07:48 PM I found no domains with Reverse Gravity on them. I keep an extensive list of domains and their deities. If you're a Cleric and you want to reverse gravity, your SOL.

IMarv

Just wondering - but what type of scroll is it if a Druid creates it? I'd think it'd be divine, but I'd still prevent a Cleric from casting it most likely...

I think he'd need to make an outstanding UMD check to succeed in any case.
was_fired
02-23-05, 08:09 PM As stated before many times. There are four requirements to use a scroll without use magic device:

1. It must be of your type: Arcane or Divine

2. It must be on your spell list.

3. You must have the required ability score.

4. You must have a high enough caster level or make the proper caster level check.

There is no ambiguity in this case, he can not cast a divine scroll of reverse gravity since it is not on his spell list. Now I admit the rules for scrolls are somewhat amusing since all you need to make is the scrolls caster level so sorcs and bards can have a lot of fun using them to cast spells earlier than normal, but there is no ambiguity here, he can not use the scroll.
Zherog
02-23-05, 08:56 PM A spell that is a domain spell for a cleric is a divine spell and said cleric could make a divine scroll with Reverse Gravity on it. Domain spells become part of the spell list of the cleric that chooses that domain and all spells on a cleric's spell list are divine spells, no matter their original source or class listings in the spell description.

Completely correct. Except what smrtgmp was getting at is the granted ability of the Magic domain, not the spell list. The Magic domain allows a cleric to cast arcane scrolls; his caster level is equal to one half his cleric caster level (which would require a caster level check in this case).

However, if the player was being honest about it being a divine scroll, then the only class that could use the scroll without a Use Magic Device check would be druids.
smrtgmp
02-24-05, 01:52 AM Except what smrtgmp was getting at is the granted ability of the Magic domain, not the spell list. The Magic domain allows a cleric to cast arcane scrolls; his caster level is equal to one half his cleric caster level (which would require a caster level check in this case).That was indeed what I meant. I suppose I could have been more clear.
Natalis
02-24-05, 05:31 AM Natalis, that would be true so long as he wasn't using his UMD skill. UMD allows him to use a scroll as if the spell was on his list, so long as he makes the rolls.

Totally right! I didn't mention it because quaiven already did...

Is it possible the cleric has the magic domain? If so, he could have used the scroll legaly.

good point as well...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jimbo19 02-23-05, 12:10 PM	Few days ago my group was playing and our cleric, lvl 12 or 13, whips out a Reverse gravity spell scroll and casts it. I looked up reverse gravity and it says Sorc/wiz or Druid. Can he do that? When it stipulates Druid can he cast it? If yes or no, where can i look up the rules about who can cast what from scrolls. Bothers me cause I am playing the wizard, and just made level 13, and I do not have reverse gravity. Does not bother him in the least that he just threw away a scroll that could have been put into my spellbook. Or could I ? If his version of the spell scroll was from a druid, could i transcribe it into my spellbook? All cheesy radiant servants need to be shot.
quaiven 02-23-05, 12:19 PM	Unless he has access to a domain which grants the spell (and off the top of my head I can't think of any), or has UMD maxed out no he should'nt have been able to cast it.
Veomyr 02-23-05, 12:26 PM	It's possible he used Use Magic Device to activate the scroll. He would need, at most, a Wisdom of 18 (not unlikely since he's a cleric), plus a total UMD roll of at least 36 to activate the scroll, assuming it's written by a level 15 druid. At worst, he would also have to roll at least 34 on a prior UMD roll to emulate a 17 intelligence (unless he already has that score).
Natalis 02-23-05, 12:28 PM	Nope. It's simply not on his class list of spells that are available to him, and therefore is unable to use the scroll. Whether you are able to use it depends on if the person that created the spells was a druid or a wizard/sorcerer. If he was a druid, you can't use it either.
Jimbo19 02-23-05, 12:30 PM	No when I asked him what he was doing he just looked at me like I am an idiot, and said "its a divine scroll."
Veomyr 02-23-05, 01:00 PM	Natalis, that would be true so long as he wasn't using his UMD skill. UMD allows him to use a scroll as if the spell was on his list, so long as he makes the rolls.
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-23-05, 01:13 PM	No when I asked him what he was doing he just looked at me like I am an idiot, and said "its a divine scroll." As has been stated, just because it's a divine scroll doesn't mean he can cast it. The spell must be on his Cleric spell list (or on one of his Domain spell lists). The spell in question is not on his cleric spell list; unless he has Druid levels, or a Domain that grants the spell, he has to make a UMD check to activate the scroll (DC 35). Even if it is on his spell list, or domain list, he'd have to make a caster level check to activate the scroll since it's of a level he can't normally cast. Otherwise you'd have Wizards using scrolls of cure serious wounds, since it's a Bard spell, and therefore arcane, and therefore can't Wizards cast arcane spells? .... :nonono: Bad Cleric.
Keenath 02-23-05, 01:32 PM	Wow, this is so wrong... I mean, just read the DMG or SRD rules for activating a scroll! Activation: To activate a scroll, a spellcaster must read the spell written on it. Doing so involves several steps and conditions. ... To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements. • The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.) Okay, he meets that requirement. It's a divine scroll with a divine caster. • The user must have the spell on his or her class list. Whoops! Can't do it, buddy. Unless Reverse Gravity is a domain spell for this guy, he can NEVER, EVER activate a scroll (or wand, for that matter) that casts it (short of using UMD, as noted above).
Luminous Crayon 02-23-05, 01:38 PM	No when I asked him what he was doing he just looked at me like I am an idiot, and said "its a divine scroll."While the looking-at-you-like-an-idiot part is just rude, the fact that it's a divine scroll does mean you could not have copied it into your spellbook, so there's no reason to be upset about that. Wizards can only benefit from Arcane scrolls, when it comes to spellbook writing.
Keenath 02-23-05, 01:47 PM	If yes or no, where can i look up the rules about who can cast what from scrolls. Okay, first, you should be able to find this in the "Magic" chapter of the PHB. It's also specified in the DMG. Bothers me cause I am playing the wizard, and just made level 13, and I do not have reverse gravity. Does not bother him in the least that he just threw away a scroll that could have been put into my spellbook. Or could I ? If his version of the spell scroll was from a druid, could i transcribe it into my spellbook? Okay, that's as big a mistake as what the cleric did. Neither of you could've cast the spell -- see rule 1 that I posted above -- and therefore you couldn't have written it into your book either. Sorry I didn't catch that before; I just glanced at your original post.
smrtgmp 02-23-05, 05:21 PM	Is it possible the cleric has the magic domain? If so, he could have used the scroll legaly.
Zherog 02-23-05, 05:38 PM	Is it possible the cleric has the magic domain? If so, he could have used the scroll legaly. That's a very good point. But then, it wouldn't have been a Divine scroll.
smrtgmp 02-23-05, 05:47 PM	Thats true. I forgot he said it was a divine scroll. I suppose thats what I get for skimming the thread instead of reading it carefully. :embarrass
SALDAR 02-23-05, 07:25 PM	That's a very good point. But then, it wouldn't have been a Divine scroll. A spell that is a domain spell for a cleric is a divine spell and said cleric could make a divine scroll with Reverse Gravity on it. Domain spells become part of the spell list of the cleric that chooses that domain and all spells on a cleric's spell list are divine spells, no matter their original source or class listings in the spell description.
IMarvinTPA 02-23-05, 07:29 PM	I found no domains with Reverse Gravity on them. I keep an extensive list of domains and their deities. If you're a Cleric and you want to reverse gravity, your SOL. IMarv
okpokalypse 02-23-05, 07:48 PM	I found no domains with Reverse Gravity on them. I keep an extensive list of domains and their deities. If you're a Cleric and you want to reverse gravity, your SOL. IMarv Just wondering - but what type of scroll is it if a Druid creates it? I'd think it'd be divine, but I'd still prevent a Cleric from casting it most likely... I think he'd need to make an outstanding UMD check to succeed in any case.
was_fired 02-23-05, 08:09 PM	As stated before many times. There are four requirements to use a scroll without use magic device: 1. It must be of your type: Arcane or Divine 2. It must be on your spell list. 3. You must have the required ability score. 4. You must have a high enough caster level or make the proper caster level check. There is no ambiguity in this case, he can not cast a divine scroll of reverse gravity since it is not on his spell list. Now I admit the rules for scrolls are somewhat amusing since all you need to make is the scrolls caster level so sorcs and bards can have a lot of fun using them to cast spells earlier than normal, but there is no ambiguity here, he can not use the scroll.
Zherog 02-23-05, 08:56 PM	A spell that is a domain spell for a cleric is a divine spell and said cleric could make a divine scroll with Reverse Gravity on it. Domain spells become part of the spell list of the cleric that chooses that domain and all spells on a cleric's spell list are divine spells, no matter their original source or class listings in the spell description. Completely correct. Except what smrtgmp was getting at is the granted ability of the Magic domain, not the spell list. The Magic domain allows a cleric to cast arcane scrolls; his caster level is equal to one half his cleric caster level (which would require a caster level check in this case). However, if the player was being honest about it being a divine scroll, then the only class that could use the scroll without a Use Magic Device check would be druids.
smrtgmp 02-24-05, 01:52 AM	Except what smrtgmp was getting at is the granted ability of the Magic domain, not the spell list. The Magic domain allows a cleric to cast arcane scrolls; his caster level is equal to one half his cleric caster level (which would require a caster level check in this case).That was indeed what I meant. I suppose I could have been more clear.
Natalis 02-24-05, 05:31 AM	Natalis, that would be true so long as he wasn't using his UMD skill. UMD allows him to use a scroll as if the spell was on his list, so long as he makes the rolls. Totally right! I didn't mention it because quaiven already did... Is it possible the cleric has the magic domain? If so, he could have used the scroll legaly. good point as well...