Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amurayi 07-24-05, 06:40 PM	Heya, can my evil mages detect my player who are hiding in a rope trick via detect magic? They should be able to detect an active spell in the room, no?
Jaid 07-24-05, 06:50 PM	yes... but they would have to have a reason to be walking around with detect magic running. if you just decided that you're going to have the evil mages do it because you know the PCs are there and you want to screw them over, then that would be metagaming. metagaming is bad. you don't want to metagame. because as soon as you start metagaming, you send the message to your players that it's ok to metagame. which you don't want to do... it's already hard enough to not metagame, and there's no good reason to make it easier to rationalize it. however, if (not out of vindictiveness, or spite, or whatever you wish to call it), you have decided that the evil wizards in your game like to check once a day or however often, then it would be reasonable to have a patrol go by with detect magic running. or if an NPC wizard has permanency cast on detect magic, that would work too.
Mitrilvich 07-24-05, 06:51 PM	I would think that it depends on how soon after "Rope Trick" was cast they used detect magic. The duration of the 'lingering aura' for "Rope Trick" is 1d6 rounds. With detect magic, the extradimensional space wouldn't be visible but I'm not sure about the window.
IceFractal 07-25-05, 02:03 AM	If the rope was still down, then it would definitely be visible, but if they'd pulled the rope up then I'm not sure. Perhaps an opposed caster level check would be in order.
Colmarr 07-25-05, 02:49 AM	A Rope Trick is a functioning spell until it expires or is dismissed. As a "functioning spell" of second level, it sheds a faint aura of magic that can be detected by Detect Magic. In the first round, the caster would detect the presence of an aura in the area. In the second round, the caster would know the number of auras and the strength of the most powerful aura (assuming the Rope Trick is the only aura in the area, 1 and faint respectively). In the third round, the caster would know the strength and location of the aura. At that point, the caster knows there's an invisible transmutation effect hanging stationary in mid air. From there it's a pretty easy guess that a Rope Trick has been found.
Phrennzy 07-25-05, 10:18 AM	The target of Rope Trick is the rope. So that's what would detect as magical. From the SRD on Rope Trick: Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes. Since the rope can be pulled up into the space, and spell effects cannot pass across the "window", you couldn't detect the magic on the rope. I would have to rule that Detect Magic would not locate it. I would let True Seeing see the 'window' (though not into the space).
Quetzy 07-25-05, 02:09 PM	The rope may be the target, but there is still a magical window/portal hanging in the air. There is no reason a detect magic wouldn't see that. But would blindsight see it? Now there's a question ;)
Colmarr 07-25-05, 10:40 PM	Good question. From the blindsight ability: Invisibility, darkness, and most kinds of concealment are irrelevant, though the creature must have line of effect to a creature or object to discern that creature or object. The ability’s range is specified in the creature’s descriptive text. The creature usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures within range of its blindsight ability. Unless noted otherwise, blindsight is continuous, and the creature need do nothing to use it. Some forms of blindsight, however, must be triggered as a free action. If so, this is noted in the creature’s description. If a creature must trigger its blindsight ability, the creature gains the benefits of blindsight only during its turn. The ability specifically refers to creatures and objects, and the Rope Trick's window is neither. I'd say that blindsight will not detect a Rope Trick if the rope is inside. I make that comment in much the same way that it is impossible to "see" a hole. You don't see the hole; you see the absence of the thing surrounding the hole (such as a wall or earth). But in the case of a Rope Trick, there's nothing around the hole to notice the absence of.
MSW 08-01-05, 02:22 PM	yes... but they would have to have a reason to be walking around with detect magic running. if you just decided that you're going to have the evil mages do it because you know the PCs are there and you want to screw them over, then that would be metagaming. metagaming is bad. you don't want to metagame. because as soon as you start metagaming, you send the message to your players that it's ok to metagame. which you don't want to do... it's already hard enough to not metagame, and there's no good reason to make it easier to rationalize it. Jaid is right. Besides, unless the BBEGs saw the PCs cast and escape through the Rope Trick, why wouldn't they assume that the PCs used Teleport to get away instead? Or that they are running around Invisible? In that case, they'd be looking for them on the ground, not 30 feet in the air.
Nethicus 08-01-05, 03:42 PM	From the spell descriptor of Rope Trick: The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it. Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends. The rope can be climbed by only one person at a time. The rope trick spell enables climbers to reach a normal place if they do not climb all the way to the extradimensional space. So there is a continuous "magic window" at the spot of the Rope Trick that anyone with a detect magic could find. Of course, walking around with a detect magic is odd, unless it's permanent. But it's not unheard of. I had one of my gnomes Permenancy reduce self on himself at 6th level (bought). Then he just rode his cohort everywhere as a Tiny gnome wizard. No reason to think that a magical patrol hasn't thought to walk around with a member who's got a Permanent see invisibility or detect magic going. Well, besides wondering where that 3rd level wizard got 5000 gp for the XP cost...
Merestil Haye 08-01-05, 04:05 PM	Jaid is right. Besides, unless the BBEGs saw the PCs cast and escape through the Rope Trick, why wouldn't they assume that the PCs used Teleport to get away instead? Or that they are running around Invisible? In that case, they'd be looking for them on the ground, not 30 feet in the air.I agree with Jaid about the metagaming bit. However, if my wizard casts DM and finds a Faint Transmutation aura hanging 20' up in the air, he is not going to conclude that someone is invisible in the area. He'd rule out an invisible, flying quarry by the lack of Illusion auras in the area. Neither is he going to conclude that it is the residue of a Teleport spell. That would produce a dim Conjuration aura that would fade away in minutes. No, he'd be quite likely to suspect a Rope Trick. To be fair, let's require the hunting wizard to make Spellcraft checks - DC 20 + spell level - to remember the specific details.