Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GoofsterStud 10-20-04, 07:42 PM	I just thought of the coolest thing to do and was wondering if it is legal. I was wondering if I could use Divine Power +Persistant Metamagic and prepare that as a spel and then use Super Natural Spill Ability to make that ability on me. (This way it can't be dispelled, because this dispelling has gotten so crazy that it's become: Walk into a door, "wow that door to had a dispel magic trap.) If I could do this then I won't have to worry about it for one Spell. Super Natural Spell Ability is for the Dreomokeeper class in the Complete Divine Web Enhancement.
kSquared 10-20-04, 07:46 PM	... then use Super Natural Spill Ability to ...Wow. You're gonna need a power word Bounty to pick up a spill of that magnitude!
carnivore 10-20-04, 08:18 PM	:rofl: kSquared , now that was funny :ayyyy!: to answer the question........no
GoofsterStud 10-20-04, 09:27 PM	What is the reason why not. Why can't the Dweomerkeeper do that? Help me understand the reason. Maybe If I described this a bit better. Supernatural Spell (SU): At 4th level, the dweomerkeeper is so attuned to the fabric of magic that she can manifest sepp effects with almost no effort whatsoever. Once per day as a standard action, she can use any one spell with a casting time of up to 1 standard action as a supernatural ability. The spell chosen must be one that is currently available to the dweomerkeepers (that is, one that she has prepareed or that she knows and has a spell slot of the appropriate level available to cast), but she can decide at the moment of casting to use this ability. The spell functions as it normally would and is expended normally, but the dweomerkeeper does not require any components, does not provoke attacks of oppertunity, and ignores the targets spell resistance, just as if she were using a supernatural ability instead of a spell. If the spell say Divine power is 1 standard action. Divine metamagic persistant spell makes that persistant and still one standard action. Now I use Supernatural Spell and cast it for the day. Please explain why this isn't possible, I see no reasoning...I just wanted clarification before I try it in game. Still new so I want to make sure I'm playing by the rules.
edsonaoki 10-20-04, 09:51 PM	It's possible, but you will need a 10th-level spell slot to do that (3.5 version of Persistent Spell bumps the spell level by 6). I'd rather have a supernatural shapechange.
darczero 10-20-04, 10:09 PM	The reason I'd personally rule against this is because you can't use Metamagic feats on Supernatural abilities, only spells. When you use the PrC special ability you mentioned, the spell ceases to be a Spell and becomes a Supernatural Ability.
Keenath 10-21-04, 11:28 AM	I don't know about that... I'd say anything you prepared in a slot is fair game. If you prepare a persistant whatnot, feel free to make it supernatural. <shrugs>
darczero 10-21-04, 12:07 PM	I don't know about that... I'd say anything you prepared in a slot is fair game. If you prepare a persistant whatnot, feel free to make it supernatural. <shrugs> I suppose that's one way to do it... of course, you've still got the final spell level, including all metamagic feats, to contend with. And if Persistent bumps it up by 6, that automatically throws it out if it's limited to 4th level or lower.
GoofsterStud 10-21-04, 12:25 PM	What about when you ad Divine Metamagic Persistant into there. The feat that lets you use turning attempts to make a spell persistant.
Zherog 10-21-04, 12:43 PM	Using the feat Divine Metamagic, I'd rule no - you can't do this. The reason is you haven't prepared the spell as a persistent spell. You only make it persistent when you cast it by burning turning attempts. If you're talking about taking a spell and preparing it with a metamagic feat, then yeah - I'd allow that. The spell has been prepared that way.
GoofsterStud 10-21-04, 01:10 PM	So you decide at the moment of casting to Divine Metamagic Persistant Spell. The spell you are going to cast is now persistant. After that you decide to make it a supernatural ability on the fly. It was now prepared to be persistant before casting it... Since you can do it on the fly I don't understand a real reasoning. "she can decide at the moment of casting to use this ability" I know this can be argued both ways but here goes... "The spell functions as it normally would" Since I decided to Peristant it as a free action now it would normally function as such.
Zherog 10-21-04, 01:16 PM	I'm simply offering my opinion. And in my opinion, using Divine Metamagic to make a spell persistent is not the same thing as preparing a spell with Persistent metamagic feat. The first is an ability that alters the spell - once it's cast - to have the same effect as a metamagic feat. The second is an actual, prepared spell. Also, as a quick aside to this conversation, are you aware that Divine Metamagic has been errata'd? It doesn't really have any impact on this discussion - just making sure you're aware of it. :)
GoofsterStud 10-21-04, 01:17 PM	Nope, nobody told me that or I wouldn't have persistant or expanded spell in the first place... (Starts swearing and cussing)
Zherog 10-21-04, 01:41 PM	That doesn't mean the question is invalid, of course. :) Talk to your DM. See if he plans to implement the errata. Then see how to go about fixing it for your character if he does. Fair and reasonable would be to allow you to select an alternate feat which you qualified for at the time you too Divine Metamagic.
edsonaoki 10-21-04, 03:01 PM	Well, taking in consideration that to do that, you will need 4 feats (Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic and at least 1 permament magic item creation feats), at least CHA 16 (to have 6 turns attempts/day), have to multiclass with a wizard in order to qualify for Dweomerkeeper, and waste ALL your turning attempts on a giving day to cast persistent divine power...well, I don't see much problem with it.