Can Light spells be considered Positive Energy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can Light spells be considered Positive Energy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lilt
11-02-04, 05:52 PM Are [light] spells (Searing light, Sunburst, ETC) considered positive energy spells for the purposes of overcoming an incorporeal-subtype creature's 50% miss-chance?

This is based on the entry from the MM glossary P310. It seems that there is a minor clash between the MM Incorporeal Subtype entry and the DMG glossary incorporeality definition. In the DMG it only mentions force effects and ghost-touch effects bypassing the miss chance. The MM, which IIRC is the appropriate source on this topic, says that positive and negative energy effects can also bypass the miss chance.

By the description of searing light, it says that you "[focus] divine power like a ray of the sun" which isn't quite 'positive energy' but it sounds close. There are other similarities like how the spells do more damage to undead, and how the sun domain grants greater turning (a positive energy effect)...

By my post, it's probably obvious that I think they should be considered positive energy effects, but i can't find anything strictly in the RAW to back me up. Does anybody else have insights on this topic?
grug
11-02-04, 06:01 PM im pretty sure its not considered positive energy. it would still be a 50 percent chance to hit. Because those spells are have the light descriptor they are just extremely effective againt coporeal undead.
Seeker95
11-02-04, 06:43 PM Short answer: No.

Longer answer: If it doesn't say "positive energy" it isn't "positive energy".
It's just light.
RaspK FOG
11-02-04, 06:49 PM They are not positive energy effects by the RAW; however, if you like it that way, you COULD rule otherwise in your campaign and define light in its 2e multiversal description as being derived from the quasielemental plane of brilliance, born of the Inner Planes of Fire and Positive Energy.

It's up to you: RAW or House Rule?
kSquared
11-02-04, 06:51 PM Are [light] spells (Searing light, Sunburst, ETC) considered positive energy spells for the purposes of overcoming an incorporeal-subtype creature's 50% miss-chance?No.

By the description of searing light, it says that you "[focus] divine power like a ray of the sun" which isn't quite 'positive energy' but it sounds close.If you read the next clause, it says "you project a blast of light". No positive energy.

In other words, a light-emitting effect is only positive energy if it specifically says so. For instance, a wall of fire and a prismatic sphere are both certainly very bright (the latter can even blind you!), but neither would be construed as a positive energy effect. And even though a daylight spell makes bright light, it's not positive energy since it doesn't say so.

There are other similarities like how the spells do more damage to undead, and how the sun domain grants greater turning (a positive energy effect)...That may be true, but similarity does not equal sameness. An apple is a fruit, but it is not also a pear, orange, or banana, even though those are fruits too.
Bloodtide_the_Red
11-03-04, 07:27 AM No, [Light] spells do not automaticaly equal positive energy. The same way all Necromancy spells are not [Evil]. 'Light' does do a bit more damage vs undead and such, but that does not make it positive energy.

It's close, but not quite.

BT
Mentar
11-03-04, 07:32 AM I saw one of the FAQs specificly stated that the only "positive energy" spells are healing spells, thus no light spell counts as positive energy. Some divine spells have "holy" as a damage type, and even these are not considered "positive energy" though they do doubble damage to undead.
tarkin
11-03-04, 11:01 AM Mentar, you did NOT see that in the FAQ.

Positive Energery can and DOES damage creatures.

Positive Energy spells state they use Positive Energy. Look at Consecrate.

If the spell does not state it, then it doesn't use it.

Also, I have to say I find your basic assumptions to be poor. Learn about some non-christian religions to find out about Varuna and other Night gods that were good. Read L. E. Modesitt, Jr.'s Order series where Black = Order/Law with Good tendencies and Light = Chaos with evil tendencies means. (Good books in general)

And look at these two spells:

Spells I wrote up a while ago to counter the kind of thinking you are doing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=277605&highlight=Unholy+Light)
Mentar
11-03-04, 12:03 PM Hmm, could have been a 3.0 FAQ or PHB, but I could be wrong, I wish I had a photograpic memory so I could remember where I saw it but I do remember seeing "There are no damaging positive energy effects, other then what is done to undead through use of cure spells" somewhere.
The Legendary Two Sandals
11-03-04, 12:22 PM No
Venom of the Yuan Ti
11-05-04, 12:00 PM Bear in mind that darkness spells draw on the plane of shadow, (I am shure I say what writen dwon somewere) If they drew of the negative energy plane then a house rule Light=Posative energy would be aceptable. bear in mind that if you do house rule a player may say "I want to channel posative energy the Searing light spell. Be carefull."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lilt 11-02-04, 05:52 PM	Are [light] spells (Searing light, Sunburst, ETC) considered positive energy spells for the purposes of overcoming an incorporeal-subtype creature's 50% miss-chance? This is based on the entry from the MM glossary P310. It seems that there is a minor clash between the MM Incorporeal Subtype entry and the DMG glossary incorporeality definition. In the DMG it only mentions force effects and ghost-touch effects bypassing the miss chance. The MM, which IIRC is the appropriate source on this topic, says that positive and negative energy effects can also bypass the miss chance. By the description of searing light, it says that you "[focus] divine power like a ray of the sun" which isn't quite 'positive energy' but it sounds close. There are other similarities like how the spells do more damage to undead, and how the sun domain grants greater turning (a positive energy effect)... By my post, it's probably obvious that I think they should be considered positive energy effects, but i can't find anything strictly in the RAW to back me up. Does anybody else have insights on this topic?
grug 11-02-04, 06:01 PM	im pretty sure its not considered positive energy. it would still be a 50 percent chance to hit. Because those spells are have the light descriptor they are just extremely effective againt coporeal undead.
Seeker95 11-02-04, 06:43 PM	Short answer: No. Longer answer: If it doesn't say "positive energy" it isn't "positive energy". It's just light.
RaspK FOG 11-02-04, 06:49 PM	They are not positive energy effects by the RAW; however, if you like it that way, you COULD rule otherwise in your campaign and define light in its 2e multiversal description as being derived from the quasielemental plane of brilliance, born of the Inner Planes of Fire and Positive Energy. It's up to you: RAW or House Rule?
kSquared 11-02-04, 06:51 PM	Are [light] spells (Searing light, Sunburst, ETC) considered positive energy spells for the purposes of overcoming an incorporeal-subtype creature's 50% miss-chance?No. By the description of searing light, it says that you "[focus] divine power like a ray of the sun" which isn't quite 'positive energy' but it sounds close.If you read the next clause, it says "you project a blast of light". No positive energy. In other words, a light-emitting effect is only positive energy if it specifically says so. For instance, a wall of fire and a prismatic sphere are both certainly very bright (the latter can even blind you!), but neither would be construed as a positive energy effect. And even though a daylight spell makes bright light, it's not positive energy since it doesn't say so. There are other similarities like how the spells do more damage to undead, and how the sun domain grants greater turning (a positive energy effect)...That may be true, but similarity does not equal sameness. An apple is a fruit, but it is not also a pear, orange, or banana, even though those are fruits too.
Bloodtide_the_Red 11-03-04, 07:27 AM	No, [Light] spells do not automaticaly equal positive energy. The same way all Necromancy spells are not [Evil]. 'Light' does do a bit more damage vs undead and such, but that does not make it positive energy. It's close, but not quite. BT
Mentar 11-03-04, 07:32 AM	I saw one of the FAQs specificly stated that the only "positive energy" spells are healing spells, thus no light spell counts as positive energy. Some divine spells have "holy" as a damage type, and even these are not considered "positive energy" though they do doubble damage to undead.
tarkin 11-03-04, 11:01 AM	Mentar, you did NOT see that in the FAQ. Positive Energery can and DOES damage creatures. Positive Energy spells state they use Positive Energy. Look at Consecrate. If the spell does not state it, then it doesn't use it. Also, I have to say I find your basic assumptions to be poor. Learn about some non-christian religions to find out about Varuna and other Night gods that were good. Read L. E. Modesitt, Jr.'s Order series where Black = Order/Law with Good tendencies and Light = Chaos with evil tendencies means. (Good books in general) And look at these two spells: Spells I wrote up a while ago to counter the kind of thinking you are doing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=277605&highlight=Unholy+Light)
Mentar 11-03-04, 12:03 PM	Hmm, could have been a 3.0 FAQ or PHB, but I could be wrong, I wish I had a photograpic memory so I could remember where I saw it but I do remember seeing "There are no damaging positive energy effects, other then what is done to undead through use of cure spells" somewhere.
The Legendary Two Sandals 11-03-04, 12:22 PM	No
Venom of the Yuan Ti 11-05-04, 12:00 PM	Bear in mind that darkness spells draw on the plane of shadow, (I am shure I say what writen dwon somewere) If they drew of the negative energy plane then a house rule Light=Posative energy would be aceptable. bear in mind that if you do house rule a player may say "I want to channel posative energy the Searing light spell. Be carefull."