Post/Author/DateTime	Post
e7way 03-15-07, 12:16 PM	Our group is having a discussion on counter spelling. Can you counter spell a quickened spell?
WinDReiN 03-15-07, 12:19 PM	I believe not. When you're counterspelling, you make a spellcraft check to indentify the spell being cast. If the spell is quickend, you can hardly indentify it. Though a normal fireball can counter a maximized one. Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered, though the Quicken feat may be an exception.
cwslyclgh 03-15-07, 12:23 PM	yes. from the FAQ: Can I counterspell a quickened spell? What if I use the Reactive Counterspell feat (Player’s Guide to Faerûn, page 42)? Yes. A quickened spell isn’t any more difficult to identify than a normal spell, despite its reduced casting time. As long as you’ve readied an action to counterspell (or you have the Reactive Counterspell feat, which allows you to counterspell without having readied an action), you can counterspell a quickened spell as normal.
WinDReiN 03-15-07, 12:30 PM	I would have to disagree with the FAQ this time, and houserule otherwise...
Farrell 03-15-07, 01:00 PM	what if you wear a ring of counterspell? Can this ring help you to counter the quickened spell? I think yes.
Vedic Cold 03-15-07, 05:28 PM	According to the SRD: Counterspelling Metamagic Spells Whether or not a spell has been enhanced by a metamagic feat does not affect its vulnerability to counterspelling or its ability to counterspell another spell. The description of the Quicken Spell feat does not directly contradict this general rule, so yes - a Quickened spell can be counterspelled normally.
crimsonwolf 03-15-07, 05:33 PM	i would say if you have a counter action ready with just dispel magic period then it deosnt matter you can still try it
BW0222 03-15-07, 05:41 PM	Folks, The rules allow it and the FAQ confirms it. There are two issues which folks appear to be relying on. First, that you can't interupt a quicken spell since it is too fast. However, you can certainly ready an action to interupt any free action. For example, I ready an action to cast a spell at him if he "draws an arrow from his quiver" or I ready an action to shoot the winter wolf when our fighter yells "Now". That fact that the spell or attack is a standard action does not stop it from interupting and a free action. Second, it that someone can not indentify a quicked spell. Someone can always identify a spell. Even if you wildshaped, used natural spell, still spell, and silent spell... the RAW still allow you to make a spellcraft check to identify the spell.
1hitparry 03-15-07, 06:33 PM	Can you possibly counter it with Celerity Metero Swarm to force a concentration check?
magenificent 03-15-07, 06:53 PM	Can you possibly counter it with Celerity Meteor Swarm to force a concentration check? Although that *technically* wouldn't be a counterspell, yeah that works. He would most likely fail/lose the spell, unless he's got something up his sleeve. My current character is an Abjurer actualy, counterspelling is a powerful tactic if you commit to it. Check out the Reactive Counterspell Feat, it allows you counterspell without readying at the expense of a turn. Works wonders with Celerity, who cares if you're dazed if you've skipped your turn anyway. :D Between those two you should be able to handle all the spells an enemy mage can throw in a round, quickened or not. That is, until you hit epic...
The Simbul 03-15-07, 07:01 PM	A quickened spell can be counterspelled, yet under normal circumstances you can only ready one action. Meanwhile, optimally a spellcaster powerful enough to quicken spells will also likely cast a standard action spell in the same round. In other words, unless you are using specific spells, magic items, abilities, or feats in conjunction with the counterspell action, then you have effectively forfeited your opportunity to directly harm the caster during your turn, just in order to counter a spell four levels below the deadliest spells they can cast. Meanwhile, said opponent can still follow up with a standard action spell, one whose spell level actually will have an adequate DC and/or damage dice cap deadly enough for their encounter level. As for counterspelling a spell without verbal or somatic components, or whose components have been removed with metamagic, it is only possible using specific spells or magic items to identify the spell, or by relying on spellcraft skill options in rulebooks from previous editions, options that have apparently been either omitted or overlooked in the newer edition equivalents of those books. In either case its a rare occurrence.
Alamanther's comeback 03-16-07, 06:07 PM	Someone can always identify a spell. Even if you wildshaped, used natural spell, still spell, and silent spell... the RAW still allow you to make a spellcraft check to identify the spell. I read the description of the Spellcraft skill, and it states that you must be able to see or hear the verbal or somatic components. A spell with no components can't be identified via the Spellcraft skill alone, and hence cannot be counterspelled normally - at least that's how I would interpret it. A ring of spell battle or counterspelling could remove the need to see or hear the spells components or the Spellcraft check from the equation. But quickened spells still have components, and, as already stated, can be counterspelled. Edit: Sorry, overlooked The Simbul's post.
runestar 03-17-07, 02:27 AM	You can still counterspell with dispel magic if you don't know what you are countering.:)
CelestialBarbarian 03-17-07, 04:28 AM	Can you possibly counter it with Celerity Metero Swarm [snip] Is that the great new epic spell that throws whole cities at the target? :D
Ogre4Hire 03-17-07, 11:59 AM	Can you possibly counter it with Celerity Metero Swarm to force a concentration check? Actually, if you did something like this, you'd be Disrupting his spell, rather than Countering it.