Can Wizards use Divine scrolls? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Can Wizards use Divine scrolls? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dragondelboy
05-23-05, 06:13 PM Hello everyone, this may already be covered somewhere on the boards but I can't find it. :doh:

The problem - our group have encountered a small problem and i wondered if anyone could point us in the right direction. As the title says "Can Wizards use Divine scrolls?". :confused: Some of us think yes and point to passages in various books and some point to other passages that go against this point. :fight!:

If an 11th level wizard was to use either Decipher Script or Read Magic and has Use Magic Device and a high enough stat to cast a 5th level Divine Scroll is he able to do so?

If he can cast it does it also mean he can write it in his spellbook?

Whethere he can or cannot use the scrolls could you let me know where the appropriate rulings can be found.

:banghead:

:dragon:
SOKAR
05-23-05, 06:19 PM Yes, with a UMD check of whatever value it is. 25+spell level, i believe.

But he can't put it in his soellbook. UMD allows characters NOT trained in a certin kind of magic to use devices. It doesn't let you learn spells.
smrtgmp
05-23-05, 06:34 PM sokar is correct.
Seeker95
05-23-05, 09:14 PM So is smrtgmp. :D
Teron Gorefiend
05-23-05, 09:33 PM Any character can use UMD (EDIT: assuming he actually has ranks in the skill) to use any kind of scroll. Only rogues and bards get it as a class skill, though, so a wizard would be hard pressed to meet the high DC's. There's nothing special about being a wizard that helps you use divine scrolls.

I suggest you carefully read the rules for UMD, either in your PHB or here (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/SkillsII.rtf).

EDIT: Thanks, CryoSilver, I neglected to mention that.
CryoSilver
05-23-05, 09:40 PM Actually, UMD can't be used untrained, as I recall.
Nom
05-23-05, 11:28 PM Normally, arcane casters can't use divine scrolls (or vice versa). See DMG on scrolls.

UMD allows a character to trigger a magic item that he isn't qualified to use. It doesn't allow him to prepare a spell that he isn't qualified to prepare, nor to scribe a foreign (ie non-Wiz) spell into his spellbook. The spellbook issue isn't even a matter of divine vs arcane - a wizard couldn't learn a spell from a bard's scroll either, unless that spell also had a wizard level associated.
Dragondelboy
05-25-05, 02:28 PM :bounce:

Thanks for the information. Hopefully now the campaign won't get slowed down when this is raised again tomorrow.

UMD is the overiding skill.

Once again thanks for your time. :D

:dragon:
tarkin
05-25-05, 03:02 PM One more thing.

For any spell caster to use a scroll (without the skill Use Magic Devices), they need to:

1) Have the spell on their list ( A wizard can NOT cast a Bard's Cure Light spell, nor can he read a scroll of it)
2) Be the right type (arcane/divine)
3) Have a stat high enough to cast the spell. (A Wizard can not read a fireball spell if his intelligence has been lowered to 12)
4) Have previously 'deciphered' the scroll (read magic, seperate UMD check DC = 25 + spell level, or a spellcraft check DC = 20+ spell level.)

If you don't meet the above qualifications, you need to roll a Use Magic Device to cast it (20 + caster level of the scroll, assuming you have a high enough stat, that AND another roll, DC of 15+required stat if you don't have a naturally high enough stat).

In EITHER case, if your caster level in that class is too low to cast the spell, you need to make a caster level check (DC = Scroll's caster level +1). This is in addition to the Use Magic Device check (or checks if your stat is too low), and the possible spellcraft check to decipher it.

So for a Rogue type with int 18 to read a wish scroll with the minimum caster level 17, he will likely need to do the following:

1) Make a UMD check of 25+9 = 34, to know that it is a wish.
2) Make a 2nd UMD check of 15+19=34, to have an Inteligence of 19 so that he is allowed to use the scroll.
3) make a 3rd UMD check of DC = 20+17 = 37, in order to succesfully activate it.
4) Make a caster level check, DC of 17+1=18 (and his caster level is 0, so he needs to roll an 18,19, or 20 on his d20).

Yes, these are a LOT of very, very high rolls
There is some good news however. Only the last roll has any chance of destroying the scroll without activating it, and the first roll can be done a week ago, or 100 years ago, no penalty for failure, multiple attempts allowed.

(Here you thought I was going to mention car insurance).
P33KAJ3W
05-25-05, 04:37 PM YES

My wizard uses them to clean up spills.
Seeker95
05-25-05, 04:41 PM My wizard uses them to clean up spills.Divine scrolls aren't nearly as absorbent as Bounty. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dragondelboy 05-23-05, 06:13 PM	Hello everyone, this may already be covered somewhere on the boards but I can't find it. :doh: The problem - our group have encountered a small problem and i wondered if anyone could point us in the right direction. As the title says "Can Wizards use Divine scrolls?". :confused: Some of us think yes and point to passages in various books and some point to other passages that go against this point. :fight!: If an 11th level wizard was to use either Decipher Script or Read Magic and has Use Magic Device and a high enough stat to cast a 5th level Divine Scroll is he able to do so? If he can cast it does it also mean he can write it in his spellbook? Whethere he can or cannot use the scrolls could you let me know where the appropriate rulings can be found. :banghead: :dragon:
SOKAR 05-23-05, 06:19 PM	Yes, with a UMD check of whatever value it is. 25+spell level, i believe. But he can't put it in his soellbook. UMD allows characters NOT trained in a certin kind of magic to use devices. It doesn't let you learn spells.
smrtgmp 05-23-05, 06:34 PM	sokar is correct.
Seeker95 05-23-05, 09:14 PM	So is smrtgmp. :D
Teron Gorefiend 05-23-05, 09:33 PM	Any character can use UMD (EDIT: assuming he actually has ranks in the skill) to use any kind of scroll. Only rogues and bards get it as a class skill, though, so a wizard would be hard pressed to meet the high DC's. There's nothing special about being a wizard that helps you use divine scrolls. I suggest you carefully read the rules for UMD, either in your PHB or here (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/SkillsII.rtf). EDIT: Thanks, CryoSilver, I neglected to mention that.
CryoSilver 05-23-05, 09:40 PM	Actually, UMD can't be used untrained, as I recall.
Nom 05-23-05, 11:28 PM	Normally, arcane casters can't use divine scrolls (or vice versa). See DMG on scrolls. UMD allows a character to trigger a magic item that he isn't qualified to use. It doesn't allow him to prepare a spell that he isn't qualified to prepare, nor to scribe a foreign (ie non-Wiz) spell into his spellbook. The spellbook issue isn't even a matter of divine vs arcane - a wizard couldn't learn a spell from a bard's scroll either, unless that spell also had a wizard level associated.
Dragondelboy 05-25-05, 02:28 PM	:bounce: Thanks for the information. Hopefully now the campaign won't get slowed down when this is raised again tomorrow. UMD is the overiding skill. Once again thanks for your time. :D :dragon:
tarkin 05-25-05, 03:02 PM	One more thing. For any spell caster to use a scroll (without the skill Use Magic Devices), they need to: 1) Have the spell on their list ( A wizard can NOT cast a Bard's Cure Light spell, nor can he read a scroll of it) 2) Be the right type (arcane/divine) 3) Have a stat high enough to cast the spell. (A Wizard can not read a fireball spell if his intelligence has been lowered to 12) 4) Have previously 'deciphered' the scroll (read magic, seperate UMD check DC = 25 + spell level, or a spellcraft check DC = 20+ spell level.) If you don't meet the above qualifications, you need to roll a Use Magic Device to cast it (20 + caster level of the scroll, assuming you have a high enough stat, that AND another roll, DC of 15+required stat if you don't have a naturally high enough stat). In EITHER case, if your caster level in that class is too low to cast the spell, you need to make a caster level check (DC = Scroll's caster level +1). This is in addition to the Use Magic Device check (or checks if your stat is too low), and the possible spellcraft check to decipher it. So for a Rogue type with int 18 to read a wish scroll with the minimum caster level 17, he will likely need to do the following: 1) Make a UMD check of 25+9 = 34, to know that it is a wish. 2) Make a 2nd UMD check of 15+19=34, to have an Inteligence of 19 so that he is allowed to use the scroll. 3) make a 3rd UMD check of DC = 20+17 = 37, in order to succesfully activate it. 4) Make a caster level check, DC of 17+1=18 (and his caster level is 0, so he needs to roll an 18,19, or 20 on his d20). Yes, these are a LOT of very, very high rolls There is some good news however. Only the last roll has any chance of destroying the scroll without activating it, and the first roll can be done a week ago, or 100 years ago, no penalty for failure, multiple attempts allowed. (Here you thought I was going to mention car insurance).
P33KAJ3W 05-25-05, 04:37 PM	YES My wizard uses them to clean up spills.
Seeker95 05-25-05, 04:41 PM	My wizard uses them to clean up spills.Divine scrolls aren't nearly as absorbent as Bounty. :P