Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alegron Blackwell 01-12-04, 03:55 PM	Such as Fortification, sonic resistance, etc.?
Burger 01-12-04, 03:57 PM	I dont know about the rules, but, sure, why not? k, thats all... Burger
paolung 01-12-04, 04:01 PM	well the real question here is, are robes armor? no, so i'd say you can't add +1 ac enhancements to them, because there's nothing to 'enhance' as far as protection goes. however, there are examples of this already such as the robe of the archmagi, so perhaps you can add things to them.
kreynolds 01-12-04, 04:11 PM	I'd say yes (new item, of course). Bracers don't provide an armor bonus either, but you can get armor bonuses on them.
Prgrmr@wrk 01-12-04, 05:48 PM	Why not? It beats the wizard wearing a shirt that's roughly shaped like armor, has a 0% ASF, 0 ACP, and gives +0 to AC, and enchanting it. The way I see it, armor is just a clothing related slot.
Kaston 01-12-04, 05:54 PM	Sure. More than one book has said you can add special abilities to Bracers of Armor, no reason you couldn't with a Robe of it... and robes and armor take up the same slot as of 3.5 anyway, which makes it even more appropriate, in my view...
Timeshaper 01-12-04, 06:18 PM	I is quite vague, but somewhere in BoED, is stated that normal clothing is armor with an AC of zero,zip, nill, niks, nul, nada, noppes, geen ene malle moer, enz, etc, ..., ..., So if you enchant it with an armor increasing spell, it would work I'd say.
Edymnion 01-12-04, 06:52 PM	No, you can't. I point you to the spell Magic Vestments who's sole purpose is to put armor bonuses on clothes. You have to think beyond just the wizard using +5 robes. What about classes like the Monk that is forbidden from wearing armor, but gets a lot of bonuses to make up for that? Granting them an armor slot via clothing makes them too powerful. If you want your wizard to have "magic robes", treat the robes as padded armor, and all the penalties thereof.
cwslyclgh 01-12-04, 06:59 PM	No, you can't. I point you to the spell Magic Vestments who's sole purpose is to put armor bonuses on clothes. uh-uh :nonono: Magic vestments sole purpose s to add an enhancement bonus to a suite of armor or a shield, it then goes on to say to count normal clothing as armor with no armor bonus... here is rtelavent quote from the SRD:[QUOTE]You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level). An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell. [QUOTE] this would seem to support the opposite arguement rather then your own Edy ;)
Seeker95 01-12-04, 07:48 PM	Originally posted by cwslyclgh An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell. However, it turns the clothing into armor (for purposes of the spell), meaning a monk cannot use it. Once you turn clothing into armor, it is armor. At that point, balance issues of ASF and armor restrictions come into play. I would not allow a robe to be used as armor. Magic vestment mentions a suit of normal clothing being treated as armor (and thereby taking up the armor slot). A robe does not count as clothing. It uses the robe slot.
Edymnion 01-12-04, 08:49 PM	Originally posted by cwslyclgh uh-uh :nonono: Magic vestments sole purpose s to add an enhancement bonus to a suite of armor or a shield, it then goes on to say to count normal clothing as armor with no armor bonus... here is rtelavent quote from the SRD:[QUOTE]You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level). An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell. [QUOTE] this would seem to support the opposite arguement rather then your own Edy ;) Lol, most of the time I see that spell getting used on clothes. But, lets run with the idea that clothes count as armor with AC +0, no check, no ASF, no dex cap, etc. Clothes are now Armor. Your monk is now butt nekkid. Your Duelist in showing the world what is his momma gave him. Rules for these are very clear, if the Monk or Duelist wear armor of any sort, then they lose their abilities. If clothes count as armor for enchanting purposes, then they must also count as armor across the board, and there are a lot of nekkid people out there :D
Virgilxx 01-12-04, 09:12 PM	I must agree with Kaston. Bracers add no armor bonus by themselves, yet bracers of armor are a staple item. There is no reason not to be able to add an armor bonus to robes, unless there is a rule I have missed. V.
Darth K'Trava 01-12-04, 09:21 PM	There are spells in the Book of Exalted Deeds that add armor bonus (and other nifty stuff) to clothing such as robes. Can't think of the names right now and a bit lazy to look them up...... :D
Willie the Duck 01-12-04, 10:31 PM	Originally posted by Virgilxx I must agree with Kaston. Bracers add no armor bonus by themselves, yet bracers of armor are a staple item. There is no reason not to be able to add an armor bonus to robes, unless there is a rule I have missed. V. Bracers are not like normal armor. They can have a magical armor bonus, they can even (with optional rules) have bonuses like fortification, but theycannot get enhancement bonuses to their ac like armor can. Thus they are not directly comperable to armor, muchless armor-like clothing.
Hypersmurf 01-12-04, 11:11 PM	Bracers are not like normal armor. They can have a magical armor bonus, they can even (with optional rules) have bonuses like fortification, but theycannot get enhancement bonuses to their ac like armor can. Thus they are not directly comperable to armor, muchless armor-like clothing. No, but just as you can - with DM's permission - craft a Headband of Resistance that acts as a Cloak of Resistance but takes up the headband slot (possibly paying more for inappropriate affinity), you can - with DM's permission - craft a Robe of Armor that acts as Bracers of Armor but takes up the robe slot (possibly paying more for inappropriate affinity). Since it's not actually armor, but rather Bracers of Armor in Robe form, it doesn't adversely affect the monk. You can't give it an enhancement bonus, but you can give it a magical armor bonus like Bracers. And if you're using A&EG rules, you can give it armor special abilities, like Bracers. ... with DM's permission. -Hyp.
Sir Pandemonium 01-13-04, 03:51 AM	Originally posted by Willie the Duck Bracers are not like normal armor. They can have a magical armor bonus, they can even (with optional rules) have bonuses like fortification, but theycannot get enhancement bonuses to their ac like armor can. Thus they are not directly comperable to armor, muchless armor-like clothing. Just for clarifications sake.... Where is it stated that you cannot add enhacement bonuses on Bracers?
Dheran 01-13-04, 06:08 AM	Originally posted by Alegron Blackwell Such as Fortification, sonic resistance, etc.? A robe is the same thing as a suit of armor according to the item slots, so it seems like this is just a question of semantics: MAGIC ITEMS ON THE BODY Many magic items need to be donned by a character who wants to employ them or benefit from their abilities. It’s possible for a creature with a humanoid-shaped body to wear as many as twelve magic items at the same time. However, each of those items must be worn on (or over) a particular part of the body. A humanoid-shaped body can be decked out in magic gear consisting of one item from each of the following groups, keyed to which place on the body the item is worn. • One headband, hat, helmet, or phylactery on the head • One pair of eye lenses or goggles on or over the eyes • One amulet, brooch, medallion, necklace, periapt, or scarab around the neck • One vest, vestment, or shirt on the torso • One robe or suit of armor on the body (over a vest, vestment, or shirt) • One belt around the waist (over a robe or suit of armor) • One cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders (over a robe or suit of armor) • One pair of bracers or bracelets on the arms or wrists • One glove, pair of gloves, or pair of gauntlets on the hands • One ring on each hand (or two rings on one hand) • One pair of boots or shoes on the feet Of course, a character may carry or possess as many items of the same type as he wishes. However, additional items beyond those listed above have no effect. Some items can be worn or carried without taking up space on a character’s body. The description of an item indicates when an item has this property. What you can't do is wear both a robe and a suit of armor.
Kyuketsukiouji 01-13-04, 02:04 PM	Hard to explain the robes of the archmagi if you don't accept robes as armor. They give armor bonus, after all...
Prgrmr@wrk 01-13-04, 07:48 PM	Originally posted by Willie the Duck Bracers are not like normal armor. They can have a magical armor bonus, they can even (with optional rules) have bonuses like fortification, but theycannot get enhancement bonuses to their ac like armor can. Thus they are not directly comperable to armor, muchless armor-like clothing. Hmm. Bracers add an enhancement bonus to AC. +3 bracers of armor: +3 enhancement to AC, 9000gp + cost of bracers (negligible) +3 Full Plate: +3 enhancement to AC, +8 Armor Bonus to AC. 9000gp + cost of fullplate +3 Robe: +3 enhancement bonus to AC, 9000gp + cost of robe (generally negligible) Bracers of Armor ARE a direct enhancement bonus to AC, same costs, same limits (excepting +8 max on bracers vs +5 max on armor), everything. Of course this is all 3.0, but I'm fairly sure that wasn't changed in 3.5
Sheer_FALACY 01-13-04, 08:05 PM	Originally posted by Prgrmr@wrk Hmm. Bracers add an enhancement bonus to AC. +3 bracers of armor: +3 enhancement to AC, 9000gp + cost of bracers (negligible) +3 Full Plate: +3 enhancement to AC, +8 Armor Bonus to AC. 9000gp + cost of fullplate +3 Robe: +3 enhancement bonus to AC, 9000gp + cost of robe (generally negligible) Bracers of Armor ARE a direct enhancement bonus to AC, same costs, same limits (excepting +8 max on bracers vs +5 max on armor), everything. Of course this is all 3.0, but I'm fairly sure that wasn't changed in 3.5 Even in 3.0, Bracers of armor didn't stack with regular armor. It isn't an enhancement bonus to armor, it is an ARMOR bonus.
Aranael 01-14-04, 01:58 PM	Ummm, why can't you add a + to bracers of armor? As was just pointed out, they add an Armor bonus to AC. As in, like full plate, or leather armor, or whatever, they make it physically harder to hit you- hits that connect are less likely to injure you, due to interference from your armor. Now, what does an enhancement bonus do? It makes armor better at its job, through magic. Though bracers of armor Use magic, they do not grant a +8 (or whatever) Magic bonus to AC. It is a physical effect, just like any other armor. And just like any other armor can be made sturdier, more able to cushion blows, or anything else through magic, my understanding is that these too could toss on an enhancement bonus, and anything else, using normal armor cost formulas, since they Are armor, albeit armor magically created. (Keep in mind, I have never seen the justification for a headband of dexterity to cost more than gloves of dexterity, just because the gloves are more common. I mean, you can't really make the argument they Work on your hands, because otherwise there would be no bonus to reflex saves, etc. I charge for the magical effect, not for the placement. And I see bracers of armor as just Really good armor in certain situations (no Dex cap, hehe), and crappy in others (AMF, for one), but at the end of the day, no different from Dendritic armor or anything else, other than in the slot it holds (which actually, unless you do it all on a robe, Costs you a slot, so whatever))
kreynolds 01-14-04, 02:51 PM	Originally posted by Aranael As was just pointed out, they add an Armor bonus to AC. No, they don't. Bracers don't provide a single thing to AC. Bracers of Armor, however, do indeed provide an armor bonus to AC, but that bonus has nothing to do with the bracers and everything to do with the magic on them (provided by mage armor). AFAIK, an armor class enhancement bonus improves the armor bonus provided by armor. Since bracers don't provide an armor bonus, there's nothing for an enhancement bonus to enhance. Dastana or vambraces, on the other hand, do indeed provide an armor bonus.
Prgrmr@wrk 01-14-04, 03:52 PM	Originally posted by Sheer_FALACY Even in 3.0, Bracers of armor didn't stack with regular armor. It isn't an enhancement bonus to armor, it is an ARMOR bonus. Oops, bad choice of words on my part. I didn't mean that bracers of armor would stack with regular armor, I meant that they provided the same style/type/cost of bonus as the enhancement you add to mundane armor to make it a +3(etc) armor.
kreynolds 01-14-04, 04:55 PM	Originally posted by Prgrmr@wrk ...I meant that they provided the same style/type/cost... Style: Maybe Type: No Cost: Yes The type of bonus isn't the same. The armor bonus from Bracers of Armor is also a force effect, which is not the case with an enhancement bonus on armor.
Gothic_Demon 01-15-04, 04:22 AM	I'd say you have two choices: 1. You have enchanted your robe as armour. It is now considered to be magical armour with no check penalty or spell failure chance. A Robe of the Archmagi would count as armour. 2. You have enchanted your robe with a force effect that increases your armour class. The force effect is exactly the same as that used by bracers of armour. A wizard should be able to enchant his robe to protect him, and this way you have two options depending on the type of wizard.
Alegron Blackwell 01-15-04, 08:29 AM	So can you stack armor bonuses then? Bracers of Armor and robe of Archmage? I didn't think you could. I've seen Richard's barkers write ups for the Drow in the WOTSQ series and all the wizards have armor bonuses to their robes as well as other powers.:b:
kreynolds 01-15-04, 09:47 AM	Originally posted by Alegron Blackwell So can you stack armor bonuses then? Nope. They overlap.
kithicus 01-15-04, 11:50 PM	well if your gonna count the robes as armor hope your wizard can wear light armor or you take all the penalties of not haveing the feat. Which is minus for to most of your rolls. As for Magic vestments it says for the spell it is treated LIKE armor, it doesn't say makes it armor for the duration of the spell. So basicly there is no penalty for a monk to wear it, if you do that and make it so it counts as armor you just hate monks that much and shouldn't allow them in your game.
Sheer_FALACY 01-16-04, 12:20 AM	Originally posted by kithicus well if your gonna count the robes as armor hope your wizard can wear light armor or you take all the penalties of not haveing the feat. Which is minus for to most of your rolls. Robes have an armor check penalty of -0. I am of the opinion that no armor should have an ASF of 0%, because that allows a wizard to use something they shouldn't be able to without any problems. Even if it grants a +0 armor bonus, they can stack enhancements like heavy fortification onto it, and that is just wrong. The only way a wizard should get heavy fortification without ASF is an animated mithral shield.
themind 01-17-04, 07:41 PM	For making the robe, why not just use the same spell that is listed as the Prereq. for the Armor Ability. Say you wanted to have a robe with Light Fortification. You would just use Limited Wish or Wish to get the same result as the armor. Wouldnt that work?
unusualsuspect 01-17-04, 08:51 PM	Well, it seems to me that robes wouldnt count as armor any more then Bracers of Armor count as armor (they dont). A monk is allowed to use bracers of armor because its the magic that gives the AC, not the bracers themselves. The Robe of the Archmagi, which only works for arcane spellcasters, obviously was not designed to stick wizards for lacking proficiency in armor... because it doesnt specify in the spell what type of armor it would be; light, medium or heavy. As a side not, has anyone noticed how underpriced the Robes of the Magi is priced? its effectively a +5 armor bonus (25000gp), 18 SR (60000gp), +4 save resists (16000gp) and +2 spell penetration (4000gp, i think). The cloak itself is a mere 75000 gp... doesnt that seem off to anybody?
mercurywyrm 01-17-04, 11:22 PM	OK, so mage armor offers armor bonus to AC, well why not make higher level versions of mage armor that include other enhancements such as fortification to the "greater mage armor" or whatnot. If the DM allows that you could, at a cost, conciveably make a magic item that grants continual use of this new "greater mage armor" spell. And there are spells in transmutation that grant immunity to crits so why not? The only thing holding you back is the potiential balance issue of being immune to sneak attacks, but if fighters can do it with the magic armor YOU made, why can't you without clunky, weird armor?
Kyuketsukiouji 01-18-04, 09:27 AM	mercurywyrm: You know....that's one heck of a good idea. Hmmm..... Crimson Armor Conjuration (Creation) [Force] Level: Sor/Wiz 5 (Stoneskin is level 4) Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 action Range: Personnal Target: The chracter Duration: 1 hour/level (D) Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) An crimson glowing field of force surrounds the caster of Crimson Armor, granting a +5 Armor bonus, and providing immunity to critcals hits and sneak attacks (as per the heavy fortification armor ability). As with mage armor, Crimson Armor entails no armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, or speed reduction. Since Crimson Armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can’t bypass it the way they do normal armor. Material Component: 100gp worth of red gem powder.
Prgrmr@wrk 01-18-04, 09:55 AM	I think that spell needs either a material component (isn't stoneskin 500gp of diamond?), or a shorter duration. Just for balance, since a +5 heavy fortification armor costs 50k normally. Don't want some munchkin getting a free, slotless 50k item for the cost of one extended 5th level spell.
Kyuketsukiouji 01-18-04, 10:02 AM	Done, but not as expensive as stoneskin, since this spell is self-only, and stoneskin soaks damage, which is relatively better than just 1 point ac boost and immune to crits.
Adlar Hodge 01-18-04, 10:18 AM	Bracers: Bracers can be enchanted with armor enhancing abilities (like Fortification),...just expect to pay double for it. Bracers usually come with armor (Breastplater, Banded Mail, etc) when you buy it, so why not? So one could have Lesser Fortified Bracers of Armor +2, for example. You can have a +2 Prtoective Ring of Invisibility right? Same thing. Robes: Robes count as suits of armor for purposes of available item slots and thus should be enchanted as such. Why can't Monks wear Robes? A Monk with an 18 Dex, and 18 Wis with the following items: Gloves of Dex +2 Bracers of Natural Armor +2 Peripat of Wisdom +2 Ring of Protection +2 Would have an AC of 24. There are more than just Robes for a Monk to wear to boost his AC. One more item isn't going to overbalance anything.