Post/Author/DateTime	Post
the_taken 07-27-06, 08:30 PM	Specicaly I want to know if you can apply Energy Substitution [Electricity], [Cold], [Acid] to a Summon Monster # or other similar spell when used to summon a fire elemental. By RAW you can right? Would it affect the elemental summoned?
ZinFeir 07-27-06, 08:57 PM	By the RAW, Energy Sub can only be used on spells with Fire, Acid, Cold and Electric subtype and Summon Monsters all have the subtype when used to summon elementals of those types. So Yes, it is legal.
BaelinWhale 07-27-06, 09:10 PM	Hmm... I can certainly imagine a supremely ****** off Fire Elemental who came to the material plane at the bidding of some spellcaster only to find himself frozen to death coz' the lame brain forgot his summon spell was Energy Substituted to cold :P
Arvagor 07-27-06, 09:43 PM	Specicaly I want to know if you can apply Energy Substitution [Electricity], [Cold], [Acid] to a Sumon Monster # or other similar spell when used to sommun a fire elemental. By RAW you can right? Would it affect the elemental summoned?It may change the spell's descriptor, but you're still summoning a fire elemental, which still deals fire damage, IMO. I think this is a side effect of WotC's poor choice in having an energy type with the same name as an elemental type. Sure, fire creatures may deal fire damage, but they more properly should be dealing Heat energy damage. After all, you don't see air elementals dealing "air" damage do you? Or Earth elementals dealing "earth" damage...
runestar 07-27-06, 11:56 PM	I think this is a side effect of WotC's poor choice in having an energy type with the same name as an elemental type. It does make sense from a certain POV, such as if you have abilities that improve the caster lv of your elemental spells. The combo, stupid as it sounds, is not without its merits. Say I am a fire-based evoker with tons of special class features which boost the caster lv of all my spells with the fire-descriptor. If I used summon monster to summon a monster with a different elemental subtype, say cold, and then use energy substitution to change the cold descriptor to fire, it would then benefit from all the aforemention benefits the evoker had. :) It's a small benefit, but a nice one nonetheless. Good call there. :)
the_taken 07-28-06, 12:21 AM	Summon spells don't have save DCs nor do they directly deal damage, so I don't know what benefit's you'd get from other boosty abilities. But say I summon a fire monolith (fire descriptor), but I instead energy sub it to electricity (giving it the electricity descriptor), does the elemental still deal fire damage, or does it convert to electricity damage? Does it become a lightning elemental? Edit->Do I summon a lightning elemental? Assuming this new lightning elemental summoning spell works and I apply Born of the Three Thunders to it. What happens?
runestar 07-28-06, 12:47 AM	The first benefit that comes to mind would be caster lv, which in turn lets your summons last longer, penetrate sr more readily and resist dispelling attempts. There might be other secondary effects which I am not aware of. :P
the_taken 07-28-06, 01:03 AM	Getting my spells to last longer is always good. Specialy when I bring a new friend to the party. Spell resistance against a summon spell? Right... You can't dispel a summoned monster either. You can bannish it though, but that roll is based apon the summoned's HD and the other dude's CL. Totaly independant of my CL.