can you craft an item that requires a higher spell level than you possess ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

can you craft an item that requires a higher spell level than you possess ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mirror-Image
03-18-04, 02:08 AM lets say your level 5 wizard you have the craft wonderous item feat and want to make an item that uses a fourth level spell. Is it possible to buy scrolls and cast the spell from it to craft the item, although your not high enough to have that spell level ?
(i know that this will cost quite a bit, if you dont use the craft variants from UA )
Loren Pechtel
03-18-04, 02:24 AM Originally posted by Mirror-Image
lets say your level 5 wizard you have the craft wonderous item feat and want to make an item that uses a fourth level spell. Is it possible to buy scrolls and cast the spell from it to craft the item, although your not high enough to have that spell level ?
(i know that this will cost quite a bit, if you dont use the craft variants from UA )

The problem is that you'll have a minimum caster level that you can't meet, period.

If you had an item that somehow had a low enough required caster level then I would permit it.
Mirror-Image
03-18-04, 12:50 PM i dont understand what you mean. could you please explain it to me ?
and i thought if you use a scroll you have the minimum level required for the spell (so its highter than your actual level)
Loren Pechtel
03-18-04, 12:57 PM Originally posted by Mirror-Image
i dont understand what you mean. could you please explain it to me ?
and i thought if you use a scroll you have the minimum level required for the spell (so its highter than your actual level)

You're not going to be able to create an item above your caster level, period. If for some reason the item has a required spell that's above the item level, though, I would allow the spell to come from elsewhere.
Kyuketsukiouji
03-18-04, 06:21 PM You could get over the Caster Level restriction with Orange Ioun Stones, though.
Hypersmurf
03-18-04, 10:53 PM Originally posted by Loren Pechtel
You're not going to be able to create an item above your caster level, period. If for some reason the item has a required spell that's above the item level, though, I would allow the spell to come from elsewhere.

Checked the DMG errata?

Caster Level is now officially Not A Prerequisite.

Caster Level
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 215
Problem: The last two sentences in the section on Caster
Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading.
Solution: Replace with this text: For other magic items, the
caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster
level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.

A level 5 character with CWI and a wand of Dimension Door can meet the prerequisites for crafting a Cape of the Mountebank. The prerequisites are CWI, and Dimension Door; the spell can be supplied by another caster or an item once per day. So by using one charge from the wand each day, he can satisfy the requirements, even though he can't cast DD himself.

-Hyp.
Naeron
03-19-04, 09:39 AM Well its looks like they are pandering to the lowest munchkiniest denominator again. DMs will now be seeng Gauntlets of Ogre Power appearing in 3rd+ level parties from now on (don't try telling me 2000gp and 160xp isn't payable for a permament +2 enhancement bonus item). And every preparation caster can now start chunking out pearls of power as soon as they reach 3rd.

And did they give any guidlines for when players argue that their Amulet of Health at CL3 should be cheaper than the book ones because it is easier to dispel.

Edit - In fact a 3rd level caster can now legally create any wondrous item, that does not specify a creator caster level in the pre-requisites, that they have the gp and xp for as the spell that would normally up the level can be provided by another caster, even better 9th level Wizards and higher can now dominate lower level casters and use their xp to create items for them.

I forsee great opportunities for use with the Leadership Feat as well.

Do they really think through the possible impact of changing a rule that was not ambiguous just disliked?
Seeker95
03-19-04, 10:10 AM Originally posted by Naeron
Well its looks like they are pandering to the lowest munchkiniest denominator again. DMs will now be seeng Gauntlets of Ogre Power appearing in 3rd+ level parties from now on (don't try telling me 2000gp and 160xp isn't payable for a permament +2 enhancement bonus item). And every preparation caster can now start chunking out pearls of power as soon as they reach 3rd. Where did the 3rd level caster get a lab to do this research in?

DMs that allow this kind of stuff should hang up their DMGs and go back to video games.
Vorpal Warhammer
03-19-04, 10:16 AM Originally posted by Naeron
Well its looks like they are pandering to the lowest munchkiniest denominator again. DMs will now be seeng Gauntlets of Ogre Power appearing in 3rd+ level parties from now on (don't try telling me 2000gp and 160xp isn't payable for a permament +2 enhancement bonus item). And every preparation caster can now start chunking out pearls of power as soon as they reach 3rd. Is it munchkinny to allow 3rd level casters to create a 1st level Pearl of Power, instead of making them wait until 17th level?

Do you really need to be 20th level to create a 50gp bottle of Universal Solvent to dissolve tanglefoot bags?
Edymnion
03-19-04, 10:30 AM Originally posted by Vorpal Warhammer
Do you really need to be 20th level to create a 50gp bottle of Universal Solvent to dissolve tanglefoot bags? Um, the main point of Universal Solvent is to take care of Soverign Glue, which you had darned well better be 20th level before you start cranking that stuff out by the gallon...
Vorpal Warhammer
03-19-04, 10:37 AM Originally posted by Edymnion
Um, the main point of Universal Solvent is to take care of Soverign Glue, which you had darned well better be 20th level before you start cranking that stuff out by the gallon... Meh, the Glue costs 1200gp to make and only requires a 2nd level cleric spell. I don't think it's so powerful that it should be limited to only 20th level casters.

If it is, then the Krazy Glue people must all be epic level businessmen.
Seeker95
03-19-04, 11:56 AM Originally posted by Vorpal Warhammer
If it is, then the Krazy Glue people must all be epic level businessmen. The first Krazy Glue person is.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mirror-Image 03-18-04, 02:08 AM	lets say your level 5 wizard you have the craft wonderous item feat and want to make an item that uses a fourth level spell. Is it possible to buy scrolls and cast the spell from it to craft the item, although your not high enough to have that spell level ? (i know that this will cost quite a bit, if you dont use the craft variants from UA )
Loren Pechtel 03-18-04, 02:24 AM	Originally posted by Mirror-Image lets say your level 5 wizard you have the craft wonderous item feat and want to make an item that uses a fourth level spell. Is it possible to buy scrolls and cast the spell from it to craft the item, although your not high enough to have that spell level ? (i know that this will cost quite a bit, if you dont use the craft variants from UA ) The problem is that you'll have a minimum caster level that you can't meet, period. If you had an item that somehow had a low enough required caster level then I would permit it.
Mirror-Image 03-18-04, 12:50 PM	i dont understand what you mean. could you please explain it to me ? and i thought if you use a scroll you have the minimum level required for the spell (so its highter than your actual level)
Loren Pechtel 03-18-04, 12:57 PM	Originally posted by Mirror-Image i dont understand what you mean. could you please explain it to me ? and i thought if you use a scroll you have the minimum level required for the spell (so its highter than your actual level) You're not going to be able to create an item above your caster level, period. If for some reason the item has a required spell that's above the item level, though, I would allow the spell to come from elsewhere.
Kyuketsukiouji 03-18-04, 06:21 PM	You could get over the Caster Level restriction with Orange Ioun Stones, though.
Hypersmurf 03-18-04, 10:53 PM	Originally posted by Loren Pechtel You're not going to be able to create an item above your caster level, period. If for some reason the item has a required spell that's above the item level, though, I would allow the spell to come from elsewhere. Checked the DMG errata? Caster Level is now officially Not A Prerequisite. Caster Level Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 215 Problem: The last two sentences in the section on Caster Level are ambiguous and potentially misleading. Solution: Replace with this text: For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given. A level 5 character with CWI and a wand of Dimension Door can meet the prerequisites for crafting a Cape of the Mountebank. The prerequisites are CWI, and Dimension Door; the spell can be supplied by another caster or an item once per day. So by using one charge from the wand each day, he can satisfy the requirements, even though he can't cast DD himself. -Hyp.
Naeron 03-19-04, 09:39 AM	Well its looks like they are pandering to the lowest munchkiniest denominator again. DMs will now be seeng Gauntlets of Ogre Power appearing in 3rd+ level parties from now on (don't try telling me 2000gp and 160xp isn't payable for a permament +2 enhancement bonus item). And every preparation caster can now start chunking out pearls of power as soon as they reach 3rd. And did they give any guidlines for when players argue that their Amulet of Health at CL3 should be cheaper than the book ones because it is easier to dispel. Edit - In fact a 3rd level caster can now legally create any wondrous item, that does not specify a creator caster level in the pre-requisites, that they have the gp and xp for as the spell that would normally up the level can be provided by another caster, even better 9th level Wizards and higher can now dominate lower level casters and use their xp to create items for them. I forsee great opportunities for use with the Leadership Feat as well. Do they really think through the possible impact of changing a rule that was not ambiguous just disliked?
Seeker95 03-19-04, 10:10 AM	Originally posted by Naeron Well its looks like they are pandering to the lowest munchkiniest denominator again. DMs will now be seeng Gauntlets of Ogre Power appearing in 3rd+ level parties from now on (don't try telling me 2000gp and 160xp isn't payable for a permament +2 enhancement bonus item). And every preparation caster can now start chunking out pearls of power as soon as they reach 3rd. Where did the 3rd level caster get a lab to do this research in? DMs that allow this kind of stuff should hang up their DMGs and go back to video games.
Vorpal Warhammer 03-19-04, 10:16 AM	Originally posted by Naeron Well its looks like they are pandering to the lowest munchkiniest denominator again. DMs will now be seeng Gauntlets of Ogre Power appearing in 3rd+ level parties from now on (don't try telling me 2000gp and 160xp isn't payable for a permament +2 enhancement bonus item). And every preparation caster can now start chunking out pearls of power as soon as they reach 3rd. Is it munchkinny to allow 3rd level casters to create a 1st level Pearl of Power, instead of making them wait until 17th level? Do you really need to be 20th level to create a 50gp bottle of Universal Solvent to dissolve tanglefoot bags?
Edymnion 03-19-04, 10:30 AM	Originally posted by Vorpal Warhammer Do you really need to be 20th level to create a 50gp bottle of Universal Solvent to dissolve tanglefoot bags? Um, the main point of Universal Solvent is to take care of Soverign Glue, which you had darned well better be 20th level before you start cranking that stuff out by the gallon...
Vorpal Warhammer 03-19-04, 10:37 AM	Originally posted by Edymnion Um, the main point of Universal Solvent is to take care of Soverign Glue, which you had darned well better be 20th level before you start cranking that stuff out by the gallon... Meh, the Glue costs 1200gp to make and only requires a 2nd level cleric spell. I don't think it's so powerful that it should be limited to only 20th level casters. If it is, then the Krazy Glue people must all be epic level businessmen.
Seeker95 03-19-04, 11:56 AM	Originally posted by Vorpal Warhammer If it is, then the Krazy Glue people must all be epic level businessmen. The first Krazy Glue person is.