Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ics 06-11-07, 04:15 PM	I have a character who is planning on combating a recurring arcane spellcaster BBEG by readying an action to shoot his fireball, reasoning that the fireball will detonate upon hitting "a material body [...] prior to attaining the prescribed range," causing an early detonation, probably only hitting the caster and not any party members. Is this possible, and if it is, what would the AC of the fireball be?
CantripN 06-11-07, 04:18 PM	There's a PDF about this... I'll check it out later tomorrow for their suggestion. I seem to recall it having AC 15 or so...
Pentar 06-11-07, 04:19 PM	I have a character who is planning on combating a recurring arcane spellcaster BBEG by readying an action to shoot his fireball, reasoning that the fireball will detonate upon hitting "a material body [...] prior to attaining the prescribed range," causing an early detonation, probably only hitting the caster and not any party members. Is this possible, and if it is, what would the AC of the fireball be? I don't think you can shoot the fireball out of the air with a conventional weapon... but if you could ready an action that would interpose a barrier between the fireball and its intended targeting point, I don't see why not. What I mean by this is readying a Quickened Wall of Force or some other solid barrier object that would stop the fireball. I don't think any type of ranged weapon (arrows, bolts, sling stones) would be sufficient "material body" to detonate a fireball... at least, not in my opinion.
Vharuck 06-11-07, 04:26 PM	Remember, the slowest fireball (cast by a level 5 wizard) travels 600 feet in about 3 seconds (standard action to cast and detonates at the designated point at the end of that standard action). The thing is travelling 200 feet per second, or 136.36 mph. That's fast, and really hard to hit with an arrow. The "bead" fired is described as "pea sized." That's really, really small. Since it's a Fine sized object, it receives a +8 size bonus to AC. But since it moves over 136 mph, I'd say that an AC of 18 doesn't do it justice. I'd double it at least. Also, I'd say the arrow strikes the bead halfway between the caster and the archer.
valbo 06-11-07, 04:51 PM	just out of memory then i recall something about not being able to counterspell spells with a durations of instantaneous (read PHB: Dispel magic) - i assume its almost the same if you ready an action to deflect an fireball. futhermore this made me think: is it possible to ready an action towards spells with instantaneous duration?? like to disrupt it?
tarkin 06-11-07, 05:26 PM	You are reading an action, fine. But the target is hard to hit. No way AC is low as 15. We are talking somethign MUCH higher. Let's simplify How about letting people hit an arrow fired in mid air? It should be a near epic thing. For arrows, if a PC wanted to pull that near-epic thing, I would make the "hit the arrow in mid air guy" have to beat the "I just want to shoot with my arrow" guy by at least 20 in an opposed BAB roll. 20 is the DC to spot an invisible creatures, that looks like the right bonus to him. The anti-arrow guy would ignore distance penalties (and never gets +1 for point blank range), but the original arrow guy has them (and gets +1 for Point Blank range with the right feat). That is, if I am shooting at you, I fire my arrow, I roll 8 on my d20, I have +4 from BAB, +1 from magical arrow, +3 from dex, but I have a -4 because of how far away I am. Total roll = 8+4+1+3-4 = 12 I get a +20 because you have to hit my arrow, total = 32 You roll a 19, you get +7 from BAB, +3 from magic, +4 from dex = 33. Congratulations you hit. ------ Now back to the original question. for trying to hit the speeding fireball pee, I would do it like this: AC = 20 + caster's BAB + caster's dex + 10 (taking 10 on his attack roll).
Vharuck 06-11-07, 05:30 PM	You are reading an action, fine. But the target is hard to hit. No way AC is low as 15. We are talking somethign MUCH higher. Let's simplify How about letting people hit an arrow fired in mid air? It should be a near epic thing. For arrows, if a PC wanted to pull that near-epic thing, I would make the "hit the arrow in mid air guy" have to beat the "I just want to shoot with my arrow" guy by at least 20 in an opposed BAB roll. 20 is the DC to spot an invisible creatures, that looks like the right bonus to him. The anti-arrow guy would ignore distance penalties (and never gets +1 for point blank range), but the original arrow guy has them (and gets +1 for Point Blank range with the right feat). That is, if I am shooting at you, I fire my arrow, I roll 8 on my d20, I have +4 from BAB, +1 from magical arrow, +3 from dex, but I have a -4 because of how far away I am. Total roll = 8+4+1+3-4 = 12 I get a +20 because you have to hit my arrow, total = 32 You roll a 19, you get +7 from BAB, +3 from magic, +4 from dex = 33. Congratulations you hit. ------ Now back to the original question. for trying to hit the speeding fireball pee, I would do it like this: AC = 20 + caster's BAB + caster's dex + 10 (taking 10 on his attack roll). For use with other objects, I'd change it to AC = Target's size modifier + caster's BAB + caster's dex +10, which only drops the AC by 2 (18 AC for a Fine object with no other bonuses as opposed to your suggested 20). This way, you could substitute other objects (bola balls, javelins, boulders chucked by giants) and the word "caster's" with "attacker's."
Vegepygmy 06-11-07, 06:23 PM	No way AC is low as 15. We are talking somethign MUCH higher.Yep. So high, in fact, that I wouldn't even bother computing it. I'd just tell the player: "Readying an action to shoot the fireball en route is fine. If you get a natural 20 on your attack roll, you hit. Otherwise, you miss."
DracoPhoenix 06-11-07, 06:28 PM	Yep. So high, in fact, that I wouldn't even bother computing it. I'd just tell the player: "Readying an action to shoot the fireball en route is fine. If you get a natural 20 on your attack roll, you hit. Otherwise, you miss." Isn't that like saying "anything but a one" and being stunned at the single digit looking up at you?
Johnny_Angel 06-11-07, 06:36 PM	Normally it takes an epic feat to reflect a spell using a weapon, so I'd say that you probably can't do it; if you can, it would be exorbitantly difficult to pull off. If you readied a spell such as wall of force or something of that nature, I would allow that...the rules allow that anyway. If you're a non-caster? You could always ready the use of a scroll. just my 2 copper peices....I'm sure others will have a different opinion.
Vegepygmy 06-11-07, 06:39 PM	Isn't that like saying "anything but a one" and being stunned at the single digit looking up at you?I'm not stunned by the occurrence of anything that has a 1-in-20 chance of happening, but I do think it would be an unwise tactic to pursue.