case of endless javelins: how to/how much? [Archive] - Wizards Community

case of endless javelins: how to/how much? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
smrtgmp
05-31-04, 09:37 AM What spells should I use as a base for a case that produces an endless supply of non-magical javelins? Also, would such an item be created using the craft wondrous item feat? I would think so, but I thought it might also be concidered a weapon, since it makes weapons and all. All help is much appreciated.

(If you really wanted to help me out you could go ahead and figure out prices too.:D I know how to do it (to an extent), but I certainly wouldnt mind someone else doing the leg work.)
Shadezz0fHades
05-31-04, 09:41 AM On the case of endless javelins, my GM gives every single one of his bad guys one of these..
It'd be wonderous, its not actually a weapon itself, it produces one.
hekker
05-31-04, 09:48 AM javelins are like free (1 gp / javelin or so?) so if your not in a "PC's are always dead broke' kinda campaign, I think 'free javelins' wouldn't add much to the cost. I suggest looking at Ehlonnah's quiver and just changing it a bit so that you can't stash your bow and spear in it but it produces as many javelins as you like (non-magical). I'd say it would be around 1/2 the cost of an ordinary ehlonnahs quiver.
abjurer
05-31-04, 03:19 PM this is already existing. Change it to create javelins instead. Of course the javelins created are destroyed just like arrows...otherwise well you can see it by yourself:rolleyes:

Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.

Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb
smrtgmp
05-31-04, 06:22 PM thanks abjurer. for future refrense, where might I find that quiver?
Edward
05-31-04, 08:35 PM Major creation is probably the spell you would need.

I have priced such things several times and it usually comes out prohibitively expensive. As in you’re better of getting a couple of returning javelins. (+1 returning 8000gp.) compare that to the cost of abjurer’s quiver. You get 3 for less than the price of the mundane arrows quiver and you atleast have a weapon in an anti-magic field.

Edward
smrtgmp
05-31-04, 08:57 PM good point. It is somewhat surprising that the price would work out like that. You would think it would cost more to have a few returning magical javelin that a quiver that produces non magical javelins. This may be one of those cases where the DM (in this case me) has to adjust the price to something he (isnt it fun speaking in the 3rd person?) deems more fair.
Zherog
06-01-04, 01:01 PM Originally posted by hekker
javelins are like free (1 gp / javelin or so?) so if your not in a "PC's are always dead broke' kinda campaign, I think 'free javelins' wouldn't add much to the cost. I suggest looking at Ehlonnah's quiver and just changing it a bit so that you can't stash your bow and spear in it but it produces as many javelins as you like (non-magical). I'd say it would be around 1/2 the cost of an ordinary ehlonnahs quiver.

A Quiver of Ehlonna would not solve the problem, as that only stores the items you put in it, it doesn't create new items.

Minor Creation seems like the spell to go with, and as you've seen, it's gonna be pretty costly.
Lord Lorac Silvanos
06-01-04, 04:26 PM Originally posted by smrtgmp
good point. It is somewhat surprising that the price would work out like that. You would think it would cost more to have a few returning magical javelin that a quiver that produces non magical javelins. This may be one of those cases where the DM (in this case me) has to adjust the price to something he (isnt it fun speaking in the 3rd person?) deems more fair.

The price difference is quite large but there are some limitations on the returning ability that should also be noted

From the SRD:

Returning: This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature’s next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn).
Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can’t catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown.
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, telekinesis; Price +1 bonus.

My emphasis

You cannot move around as easily when using a returning weapon. :bounce:

For some it might also be an issue that Telekinesis is a 5th level spell compared to the 4th level minor creation. :mage:

You could potentially share a "Case of Endless Javelins" with another/other character(s) if the case was placed strategically. :smirk:

I am not sure this warrants the price difference but it is at least something that should be considered. :D
smrtgmp
06-01-04, 08:22 PM I agree than minor creation is probably the most appropriate core spell to use in the creation of this item. However, that seems like a very limited use of the spell, and I imagine there is a "create ammo" spell out there that would be of lower level. If I cant find one, I'll create one. Anyways, thanks for the help everyone.
Edward
06-01-04, 08:29 PM Javelins are mettle or stone headed and thus can not be created using minor creation. You need major creation. Also the cost of returning is not calculated from the spell telecinesis.

Edward
Loren Pechtel
06-02-04, 01:37 AM There is an item on the Wizards website that produces infinite arrows, enchanted up to +5. That should be your starting point for infinite javelins.
TheDarkLord
06-02-04, 04:47 AM Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel

There is an item on the Wizards website that produces infinite arrows, enchanted up to +5. That should be your starting point for infinite javelins.

I WANT this. Where can i Find it?
smrtgmp
06-02-04, 04:54 AM since its on the main page, I think its fine to post here. I'd just post a link, but I have something to say as well.

Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.

Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.

(emphasis mine)
My question is: why is magic weapon a prerequisite for all of the arrows? It seems like it shouldnt be factored into the price for non-magical arrows. Also, shouldnt it be greater magic weapon for the more powerful arrows? This is definately a good place to start, but I think it will require some retooling. Thanks again to those who offered advice. :D
tarkin
06-02-04, 11:28 AM Or you could read the thread and realize that you requested somethign be posted that had already been posted in this thread.

Note, the Quiver is generally well written, but does have some "loopholes". After all it was Web published, which tends to be more prone to problems.

As a DM I strongly suggest you add in the following rule:

Only the wearer of the quiver can reach remove an arrow and they must be pulled out one at a time.

This prevents people from "sharing" the quiver, thereby letting one person buy it and supply his entire party with unlimited arrows.
smrtgmp
06-02-04, 07:53 PM I only reposted it because of the questions I had in relation to the prerequite spells (or were you talking to dark lord?). I certainly agree that the stipulation you added is a good one. Given what I will be using it for, I dont think it will come up, but it sould definately be added to the original item.
Loren Pechtel
06-03-04, 11:26 PM Originally posted by tarkin
Or you could read the thread and realize that you requested somethign be posted that had already been posted in this thread.

Note, the Quiver is generally well written, but does have some "loopholes". After all it was Web published, which tends to be more prone to problems.

As a DM I strongly suggest you add in the following rule:

Only the wearer of the quiver can reach remove an arrow and they must be pulled out one at a time.

This prevents people from "sharing" the quiver, thereby letting one person buy it and supply his entire party with unlimited arrows.

It doesn't seem to me to be a problem. If you're fighting you are in your own square--can you reach the quiver on your buddy's back 5' away??? Not to mention the fact that he's presumably moving around also--even if you could reach (perhaps you're large) I would *NOT* call it a free action.

What I'm wondering about is other types of arrows.

Can you make a version of this that creates other arrows with the same sort of cost?

How about a +1 flaming arrow for the cost of the +2 quiver?

Or how about those +2? constitution-draining arrows that cost as +5?
smrtgmp
06-04-04, 06:21 AM i'd allow it.
Edward
06-04-04, 12:58 PM if you ay only one at a time you cant use it in conjunction withe many shot.

and anybody that needs infinet arows probably has manyshot. my 12th level ache manages to servive on a quiver of elhona and 5 bundles of 20 arows in a hewards.

Edward
RaceBannon42
06-04-04, 01:13 PM Hmm. I didn't see in the item description for the quiver that it said only one arrow could be drawn at a time. So I would certainly think it could be used with manyshot.

As for the Javelin quiver, I'd think it might cost a little more, as javelins cost more than arrows. Even for non magical javelins the conveniece of not having to tote several bundles of them around to use makes it worth the price.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
smrtgmp 05-31-04, 09:37 AM	What spells should I use as a base for a case that produces an endless supply of non-magical javelins? Also, would such an item be created using the craft wondrous item feat? I would think so, but I thought it might also be concidered a weapon, since it makes weapons and all. All help is much appreciated. (If you really wanted to help me out you could go ahead and figure out prices too.:D I know how to do it (to an extent), but I certainly wouldnt mind someone else doing the leg work.)
Shadezz0fHades 05-31-04, 09:41 AM	On the case of endless javelins, my GM gives every single one of his bad guys one of these.. It'd be wonderous, its not actually a weapon itself, it produces one.
hekker 05-31-04, 09:48 AM	javelins are like free (1 gp / javelin or so?) so if your not in a "PC's are always dead broke' kinda campaign, I think 'free javelins' wouldn't add much to the cost. I suggest looking at Ehlonnah's quiver and just changing it a bit so that you can't stash your bow and spear in it but it produces as many javelins as you like (non-magical). I'd say it would be around 1/2 the cost of an ordinary ehlonnahs quiver.
abjurer 05-31-04, 03:19 PM	this is already existing. Change it to create javelins instead. Of course the javelins created are destroyed just like arrows...otherwise well you can see it by yourself:rolleyes: Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver. Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb
smrtgmp 05-31-04, 06:22 PM	thanks abjurer. for future refrense, where might I find that quiver?
Edward 05-31-04, 08:35 PM	Major creation is probably the spell you would need. I have priced such things several times and it usually comes out prohibitively expensive. As in you’re better of getting a couple of returning javelins. (+1 returning 8000gp.) compare that to the cost of abjurer’s quiver. You get 3 for less than the price of the mundane arrows quiver and you atleast have a weapon in an anti-magic field. Edward
smrtgmp 05-31-04, 08:57 PM	good point. It is somewhat surprising that the price would work out like that. You would think it would cost more to have a few returning magical javelin that a quiver that produces non magical javelins. This may be one of those cases where the DM (in this case me) has to adjust the price to something he (isnt it fun speaking in the 3rd person?) deems more fair.
Zherog 06-01-04, 01:01 PM	Originally posted by hekker javelins are like free (1 gp / javelin or so?) so if your not in a "PC's are always dead broke' kinda campaign, I think 'free javelins' wouldn't add much to the cost. I suggest looking at Ehlonnah's quiver and just changing it a bit so that you can't stash your bow and spear in it but it produces as many javelins as you like (non-magical). I'd say it would be around 1/2 the cost of an ordinary ehlonnahs quiver. A Quiver of Ehlonna would not solve the problem, as that only stores the items you put in it, it doesn't create new items. Minor Creation seems like the spell to go with, and as you've seen, it's gonna be pretty costly.
Lord Lorac Silvanos 06-01-04, 04:26 PM	Originally posted by smrtgmp good point. It is somewhat surprising that the price would work out like that. You would think it would cost more to have a few returning magical javelin that a quiver that produces non magical javelins. This may be one of those cases where the DM (in this case me) has to adjust the price to something he (isnt it fun speaking in the 3rd person?) deems more fair. The price difference is quite large but there are some limitations on the returning ability that should also be noted From the SRD: Returning: This special ability can only be placed on a weapon that can be thrown. A returning weapon flies through the air back to the creature that threw it. It returns to the thrower just before the creature’s next turn (and is therefore ready to use again in that turn). Catching a returning weapon when it comes back is a free action. If the character can’t catch it, or if the character has moved since throwing it, the weapon drops to the ground in the square from which it was thrown. Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, telekinesis; Price +1 bonus. My emphasis You cannot move around as easily when using a returning weapon. :bounce: For some it might also be an issue that Telekinesis is a 5th level spell compared to the 4th level minor creation. :mage: You could potentially share a "Case of Endless Javelins" with another/other character(s) if the case was placed strategically. :smirk: I am not sure this warrants the price difference but it is at least something that should be considered. :D
smrtgmp 06-01-04, 08:22 PM	I agree than minor creation is probably the most appropriate core spell to use in the creation of this item. However, that seems like a very limited use of the spell, and I imagine there is a "create ammo" spell out there that would be of lower level. If I cant find one, I'll create one. Anyways, thanks for the help everyone.
Edward 06-01-04, 08:29 PM	Javelins are mettle or stone headed and thus can not be created using minor creation. You need major creation. Also the cost of returning is not calculated from the spell telecinesis. Edward
Loren Pechtel 06-02-04, 01:37 AM	There is an item on the Wizards website that produces infinite arrows, enchanted up to +5. That should be your starting point for infinite javelins.
TheDarkLord 06-02-04, 04:47 AM	Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel There is an item on the Wizards website that produces infinite arrows, enchanted up to +5. That should be your starting point for infinite javelins. I WANT this. Where can i Find it?
smrtgmp 06-02-04, 04:54 AM	since its on the main page, I think its fine to post here. I'd just post a link, but I have something to say as well. Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver. Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes. Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb. (emphasis mine) My question is: why is magic weapon a prerequisite for all of the arrows? It seems like it shouldnt be factored into the price for non-magical arrows. Also, shouldnt it be greater magic weapon for the more powerful arrows? This is definately a good place to start, but I think it will require some retooling. Thanks again to those who offered advice. :D
tarkin 06-02-04, 11:28 AM	Or you could read the thread and realize that you requested somethign be posted that had already been posted in this thread. Note, the Quiver is generally well written, but does have some "loopholes". After all it was Web published, which tends to be more prone to problems. As a DM I strongly suggest you add in the following rule: Only the wearer of the quiver can reach remove an arrow and they must be pulled out one at a time. This prevents people from "sharing" the quiver, thereby letting one person buy it and supply his entire party with unlimited arrows.
smrtgmp 06-02-04, 07:53 PM	I only reposted it because of the questions I had in relation to the prerequite spells (or were you talking to dark lord?). I certainly agree that the stipulation you added is a good one. Given what I will be using it for, I dont think it will come up, but it sould definately be added to the original item.
Loren Pechtel 06-03-04, 11:26 PM	Originally posted by tarkin Or you could read the thread and realize that you requested somethign be posted that had already been posted in this thread. Note, the Quiver is generally well written, but does have some "loopholes". After all it was Web published, which tends to be more prone to problems. As a DM I strongly suggest you add in the following rule: Only the wearer of the quiver can reach remove an arrow and they must be pulled out one at a time. This prevents people from "sharing" the quiver, thereby letting one person buy it and supply his entire party with unlimited arrows. It doesn't seem to me to be a problem. If you're fighting you are in your own square--can you reach the quiver on your buddy's back 5' away??? Not to mention the fact that he's presumably moving around also--even if you could reach (perhaps you're large) I would NOT call it a free action. What I'm wondering about is other types of arrows. Can you make a version of this that creates other arrows with the same sort of cost? How about a +1 flaming arrow for the cost of the +2 quiver? Or how about those +2? constitution-draining arrows that cost as +5?
smrtgmp 06-04-04, 06:21 AM	i'd allow it.
Edward 06-04-04, 12:58 PM	if you ay only one at a time you cant use it in conjunction withe many shot. and anybody that needs infinet arows probably has manyshot. my 12th level ache manages to servive on a quiver of elhona and 5 bundles of 20 arows in a hewards. Edward
RaceBannon42 06-04-04, 01:13 PM	Hmm. I didn't see in the item description for the quiver that it said only one arrow could be drawn at a time. So I would certainly think it could be used with manyshot. As for the Javelin quiver, I'd think it might cost a little more, as javelins cost more than arrows. Even for non magical javelins the conveniece of not having to tote several bundles of them around to use makes it worth the price.