Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sK93 12-07-06, 04:27 PM	I'm running an Eberron campaign with a group of friends. One friend is the most experienced D&D player I know, but his character is becoming scary. He is able to cast "Cast minor image" and every time we start a combat encounter, he casts it on the exact square he is standing in. In his own words: "I cast the image of a completely empty square". If we're on a lightning rail, and he's standing in the isle.. he'll cast an image of what the square he's standing in would look like.. if he wasn't in it Combine this with his combat reflexes and other bonuses to his sneak attack roll, he pretty much lays waist to every monster that steps foot in his threat range! Although I can occasionally pass my fort save to see him, he'll just run off, pass a hide check from the monsters, and re-cast it.. as it can also move with him (as per the spell description), it gets even worse when we're outside in the open (say a grassy knoll) as he can freely move around without having to alter the image! I've read the spell, and although I'm not 100% sure, I believe if he cast a image of an empty square, then everyone would see an empty square, but would also see him, as he is still standing on the square. If he cast an image of a tree roughly the same width as him, then he could hide within the tree... but if the image doesn't include something he could hide "within", then the monsters should still be able to see him... But, he's arguing the point on it. So, we both agreed we'd see what the experts here would say about it (as I'm not exactly the greatest DM in the world, nor have I ANY experience with this spell before!) So... PLEASE... help :)
Auorix 12-07-06, 04:48 PM	He is using it wrong...I cant quote the SRD from work but it is along the lines of for example...a figment spell can not cover a door in a dungeon to look like a wall. It can however place bricks in front of the door to make it look like it has been walled up. Basically cant make something look different or make it invisable, but can conceal things. Something along those lines. Found this. Use this link to read what I am describing: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060228a
smrtgmp 12-07-06, 04:52 PM	That is correct. Figments can create an image of something, which can then be used to obscure something else (such as the above mentioned briks over a door), but they cannot make something invisible. That is what glamours are for. Here is what the SRD has to say on illusion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#illusion). That should help to clear things up.
Count Arioch the 28th 12-07-06, 05:05 PM	In his own words: "I cast the image of a completely empty square". Can't do it. He can put a big rock or something on the square, or another object he can hide inside, but he can't make an illusion of nothing. Combine this with his combat reflexes and other bonuses to his sneak attack roll, he pretty much lays waist to every monster that steps foot in his threat range! Although I can occasionally pass my fort save to see him, he'll just run off, pass a hide check from the monsters, and re-cast it.. First off, it's a WILL save. Second, they get one every time he attacks from behind an illusion. Third, the monsters get a +4 bonus because they just saw a weapon come out from behind the object. Also, once the monsters see him, he can't hide. The foes can just follow him with his eyes and see him.
sK93 12-07-06, 05:18 PM	He is using it wrong...I cant quote the SRD from work but it is along the lines of for example...a figment spell can not cover a door in a dungeon to look like a wall. It can however place bricks in front of the door to make it look like it has been walled up. Basically cant make something look different or make it invisable, but can conceal things. Something along those lines. Found this. Use this link to read what I am describing: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060228a SPOT ON! thanks for that document, it's exactly what I needed :) thanks everyone else too!
Gnarl 12-07-06, 06:15 PM	Combine this with his combat reflexes and other bonuses to his sneak attack roll, he pretty much lays waist to every monster that steps foot in his threat range! Can you make an attack of opportunity while concentrating on a spell and keep your concentration? Although I can occasionally pass my fort save to see him, he'll just run off, pass a hide check from the monsters, and re-cast it. Isn't it a Will save. Furthermore he can't hide while being observed (i.e. some critter has line of sight with him). Can't do it. He can put a big rock or something on the square, or another object he can hide inside, but he can't make an illusion of nothing. I'm not sure you can do that. In any event, if you run out of your rock, or your hand and pull it back in the rock that probably would be an auto disbelief.
UndeadViking 12-07-06, 09:08 PM	Super cheese!
Kimokeo 12-08-06, 03:49 PM	Seeing him cast a spell to create something that will conceal himself while the enemy watches the spell being cast better be believeable. Second, once the enemy is upon him, you stated he just runs away and casts it again. Well, if it's a full retreat, he's not casting anything. If he moves and casts for his standard action, he probably is provoking an AoO unless he's tumbling out of the square. Once I realize it was an illusion he stood in, his next spell cast won't fool me unless he's casts a spell that actually creates something real (that's what a real mage would do. Mix illusions with reality). Heck, if he's gonna hide in his illusion, what's his friends think? I'd be going after them while he waits - is he delaying actions....?
sK93 12-08-06, 06:06 PM	Seeing him cast a spell to create something that will conceal himself while the enemy watches the spell being cast better be believeable. Second, once the enemy is upon him, you stated he just runs away and casts it again. Well, if it's a full retreat, he's not casting anything. If he moves and casts for his standard action, he probably is provoking an AoO unless he's tumbling out of the square. Once I realize it was an illusion he stood in, his next spell cast won't fool me unless he's casts a spell that actually creates something real (that's what a real mage would do. Mix illusions with reality). Heck, if he's gonna hide in his illusion, what's his friends think? I'd be going after them while he waits - is he delaying actions....? he retreats to a place out of site, casts the spell on the square he occupies, then calls for the party to drag the monsters back towards him (in the example of the lightning rail coach).. he is powerfull enough to kill most mosters with one sneak attack, he's rolling at LEAST 3d6 for his sneak attack damage, with a +1 shortsword...) Fair enough, larger monsters aint gonna die first time to him, but it's minions always seem to. and if he doesn't kill the monster, on his turn, he runs somewhere out of site if he can, then casts the spell again tbh, I think he's using my inexperience as a GM as a benefit to him, as he is a very experienced player. Last session, he buggered off right from the get go when facing a dragon (the rest of the party stayed, fought and eventually slayed it), because he says his character is not an "attacking type" character. Fair enough, but he continued to ride to a specific city, over 100 miles away! without telling the party etc. THen, once I told him he'd continue uninterupted most of the way, he went downstairs and watched tv. tbh.. it's getting to the point where I feel he's becoming detrimental to the group, as he point blank refuses to follow even the most simplist plot, and argues with the rest of the party (who get the point) at every oppertunity... bah... rant rant rant :)
tyrecian 12-08-06, 10:04 PM	sounds like he is becoming a detriment, try taking him aside and asking not to come anymore if he is going to have that attitude. Oft times when a player is just plain bad, or obstructive to the fun of the party, it is not worth even having them in the party. It can be hard, but it requires a heavy hand sometimes to help people realize that they are beign childish =)
sK93 12-09-06, 09:18 AM	i'm going to re-script some of my campaign to more involve his character on a personal level much much more.. see if it kickstarts him back into playing well.. but if it doesn't, then i think your idea is the right way (sadly) :(
Someone 12-09-06, 12:29 PM	If he's having the other PCs "pull" the monsters to a place he can sneak attack them, why doesn't he just flank them? Same results, none of the resource expenditure. To me, it seems like he's taking 2 or 3 rounds to achieve what could be done with a move action (that is, have the enemy in the position to be sneak attacked).
starfire311 12-09-06, 12:36 PM	As a PC in this group I would actually grow very tired of these tactics, and the fact that I am taking all the bruises so he can remain safe and cozy. I would ask him to put his spells to better use with buffing/hurting the opponent or negating the opponents attacks, than to just hide like a scared school girl, or just get is butt into flanking position.
Vegepygmy 12-10-06, 02:32 AM	Can you make an attack of opportunity while concentrating on a spell and keep your concentration?Yes, as long as you spend a standard action each round on your turn to maintain your concentration, and you don't take any damage or perform any action that would provoke an attack of opportunity (see the Concentration skill description, pages 69-70 in the PHB).