Caster Level of 22 for a 20th level Wizard. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Caster Level of 22 for a 20th level Wizard. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man
07-29-06, 05:17 PM Can a 20th level Wizard with an Orange Ioun Stone (+1 CL) and a running Create Magic Tattoo spell (+1 CL variety) cast his spells at 22nd level?

I ask because I'm not familiar with "Epic" rules in how they affect Caster Level. Meaning, I don't know if the max ceiling for CL is 20.

I would love to crank up that CL even higher with other magic items and game mechanic effects (I can see getting it to 25 or so). But I'm not sure either, if its really worth it in regards to dealing with opposing Dispel Magics and penetrating SR.

Thanks for all your help in advance. :)
Thiez
07-29-06, 05:24 PM Look at spells like Heal, mass. I think they could scale up to caster level 25. That means: CL can go above 20.

I believe you still get +1 cl / level as an epic level wizard.
Esponer
07-29-06, 05:32 PM Yeah, there's no restriction to your caster level. Some builds get upwards of 30 or 40 by 20th level, but only at special times. Others can get infinite, but shh. :)
rogue_lettuce
07-29-06, 07:05 PM Prayer Beads of Karma. That's all I have to say on the matter. :D
Zombayz1
07-29-06, 07:19 PM You do realize that orange ioun stones stack right?
Meaning a CL of 22 ain't that hard to reach.
20 base+ 25orange ioun stones+ 25 red mage+ 5 archmage=95

There. I just mor than quadroupled your caster level.
Thiez
07-29-06, 07:43 PM Unnamed bonusses stack, but, as far as I know, not from the same source.
runestar
07-29-06, 10:16 PM Multiple orange ioun stones do not stack. Nor will multiple archmage spell power abilities. They are each unnamed bonuses from the same source, and thus will overlap, rather than stack. ;) Spell power will stack with ioun stone though, but that just gives a +2 caster lv increase.

And what the heck is a red mage? :confused:
Zombayz1
07-29-06, 11:42 PM Sorry, I meant Red Wizard.
IceFractal
07-30-06, 01:18 AM Actually, I believe Spell Power (from Archmage) is specifically designated as stacking with itself, as it replaces the old +1/+2/+3 system.
Tempest Stormwind
07-30-06, 01:35 AM It isn't hard to boost caster levels to something really high, especially for clerics. A cleric who knows what he's doing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4544657&postcount=3) can achieve a caster level of 29 for when it counts (namely, when he casts persistent buffs). There are even more absurd tricks involving the Ur-Priest, the Sublime Chord, or the Chameleon to jack a caster level up even higher (sometimes by combining it with a theurge class).

All that caster level determines, though, is the range, duration, and other level-based variables of a spell, along with things like dispel checks (which you already caught). If you cast a spell at a 22nd level, you still have only the spells per day of a 20th level wizard. They're just *better* in general.

Note that it's easy to figure this in using even core rules, again, with clerics. Look at the Healing domain, for instance. A first-level cleric with that domain casts Cure Light Wounds and heals 1d8+2, not 1d8+1. If you expand this to other books, Practiced Spellcaster means a wizard 4/fighter 4 has the spells per day of a 4th level wizard (including a maximum of 2nd level spells), but casts them as if he were level 8 with respect to level-dependent variables.
Bulletproof_Condom
07-30-06, 02:10 AM Your caster level affects the following things: spell range spell duration certain other effects of spells such as damage, which may be capped That's it. Spells per day and spells known and stuff are based on your class level. It just happens that spellcasting classes like the wizard grant a +1 to your caster level for every class level. So if you have items that boost your caster level over 20, you don't suddenly gain epic spells. Epic spellcasting is an epic feat anyway. You're just using a number larger than 20 for determining the range, duration, and other effects of your spells. Plenty of spells with caster level-dependant effects go above 20.
Vanigo
07-30-06, 02:15 AM Actually, I believe Spell Power (from Archmage) is specifically designated as stacking with itself, as it replaces the old +1/+2/+3 system.
It doesn't specifically say it stacks with itself, but I think that, because it's described as a increase rather than a bonus, it doesn't have to. It is, admittedly, a rather thin argument, but it just feels so wrong not to be able to take it multiple times.
runestar
07-30-06, 03:20 AM Actually, I believe Spell Power (from Archmage) is specifically designated as stacking with itself, as it replaces the old +1/+2/+3 system.
By right, it should, but notice how it is missing the text which allows multiple spell powers to stack, unlike heirophant, which does have such a reminder text.

I think the reason is simply due to sloppy editting. The 3.0 archmage had different spell power variants, which would stack with one another since they were unnamed bonuses from different sources, but when the designer was editting them to be 3.5 compliant, they probably did a sloppy copy and paste job and forgot to include the reminder text. Heirophant had this text since it had it too in its 3.0 incarnation. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 07-29-06, 05:17 PM	Can a 20th level Wizard with an Orange Ioun Stone (+1 CL) and a running Create Magic Tattoo spell (+1 CL variety) cast his spells at 22nd level? I ask because I'm not familiar with "Epic" rules in how they affect Caster Level. Meaning, I don't know if the max ceiling for CL is 20. I would love to crank up that CL even higher with other magic items and game mechanic effects (I can see getting it to 25 or so). But I'm not sure either, if its really worth it in regards to dealing with opposing Dispel Magics and penetrating SR. Thanks for all your help in advance. :)
Thiez 07-29-06, 05:24 PM	Look at spells like Heal, mass. I think they could scale up to caster level 25. That means: CL can go above 20. I believe you still get +1 cl / level as an epic level wizard.
Esponer 07-29-06, 05:32 PM	Yeah, there's no restriction to your caster level. Some builds get upwards of 30 or 40 by 20th level, but only at special times. Others can get infinite, but shh. :)
rogue_lettuce 07-29-06, 07:05 PM	Prayer Beads of Karma. That's all I have to say on the matter. :D
Zombayz1 07-29-06, 07:19 PM	You do realize that orange ioun stones stack right? Meaning a CL of 22 ain't that hard to reach. 20 base+ 25orange ioun stones+ 25 red mage+ 5 archmage=95 There. I just mor than quadroupled your caster level.
Thiez 07-29-06, 07:43 PM	Unnamed bonusses stack, but, as far as I know, not from the same source.
runestar 07-29-06, 10:16 PM	Multiple orange ioun stones do not stack. Nor will multiple archmage spell power abilities. They are each unnamed bonuses from the same source, and thus will overlap, rather than stack. ;) Spell power will stack with ioun stone though, but that just gives a +2 caster lv increase. And what the heck is a red mage? :confused:
Zombayz1 07-29-06, 11:42 PM	Sorry, I meant Red Wizard.
IceFractal 07-30-06, 01:18 AM	Actually, I believe Spell Power (from Archmage) is specifically designated as stacking with itself, as it replaces the old +1/+2/+3 system.
Tempest Stormwind 07-30-06, 01:35 AM	It isn't hard to boost caster levels to something really high, especially for clerics. A cleric who knows what he's doing (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4544657&postcount=3) can achieve a caster level of 29 for when it counts (namely, when he casts persistent buffs). There are even more absurd tricks involving the Ur-Priest, the Sublime Chord, or the Chameleon to jack a caster level up even higher (sometimes by combining it with a theurge class). All that caster level determines, though, is the range, duration, and other level-based variables of a spell, along with things like dispel checks (which you already caught). If you cast a spell at a 22nd level, you still have only the spells per day of a 20th level wizard. They're just better in general. Note that it's easy to figure this in using even core rules, again, with clerics. Look at the Healing domain, for instance. A first-level cleric with that domain casts Cure Light Wounds and heals 1d8+2, not 1d8+1. If you expand this to other books, Practiced Spellcaster means a wizard 4/fighter 4 has the spells per day of a 4th level wizard (including a maximum of 2nd level spells), but casts them as if he were level 8 with respect to level-dependent variables.
Bulletproof_Condom 07-30-06, 02:10 AM	Your caster level affects the following things: spell range spell duration certain other effects of spells such as damage, which may be capped That's it. Spells per day and spells known and stuff are based on your class level. It just happens that spellcasting classes like the wizard grant a +1 to your caster level for every class level. So if you have items that boost your caster level over 20, you don't suddenly gain epic spells. Epic spellcasting is an epic feat anyway. You're just using a number larger than 20 for determining the range, duration, and other effects of your spells. Plenty of spells with caster level-dependant effects go above 20.
Vanigo 07-30-06, 02:15 AM	Actually, I believe Spell Power (from Archmage) is specifically designated as stacking with itself, as it replaces the old +1/+2/+3 system. It doesn't specifically say it stacks with itself, but I think that, because it's described as a increase rather than a bonus, it doesn't have to. It is, admittedly, a rather thin argument, but it just feels so wrong not to be able to take it multiple times.
runestar 07-30-06, 03:20 AM	Actually, I believe Spell Power (from Archmage) is specifically designated as stacking with itself, as it replaces the old +1/+2/+3 system. By right, it should, but notice how it is missing the text which allows multiple spell powers to stack, unlike heirophant, which does have such a reminder text. I think the reason is simply due to sloppy editting. The 3.0 archmage had different spell power variants, which would stack with one another since they were unnamed bonuses from different sources, but when the designer was editting them to be 3.5 compliant, they probably did a sloppy copy and paste job and forgot to include the reminder text. Heirophant had this text since it had it too in its 3.0 incarnation. :P