Caster's Death [Archive] - Wizards Community

Caster's Death [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
apocryphal_rumor
08-06-06, 12:03 PM Hey,

Group ran into a problem a few nights back and wanted to see if anyone on here knew if there was a specific rule to look at for a solution or if it should be house ruled.

Does a caster's death impact a timed duration spell?

Example:

Wizard casts Summon Monster, poof, creatures appear and jump into the fray. Next round Wizard bites the big one and dies. Do the creatures simply vanish or do they continue until the end of the spell's duration?
Witch
08-06-06, 12:53 PM They continue - but only until the last given order is completed. After that, they sit still and do nothing (except for maybe self-defense)
apocryphal_rumor
08-06-06, 01:22 PM They continue - but only until the last given order is completed. After that, they sit still and do nothing (except for maybe self-defense)

Witch, thanks for a reply, do you have a rule you're looking at for this or this a house rule?
cwslyclgh
08-06-06, 02:57 PM Do the creatures simply vanish or do they continue until the end of the spell's duration?

a spell lasts the listed duration once cast... the only spells that are affected by the casters death are those that require concentration.

based upon the summon monster spell I dissagree with the witch, since if a caster can't communicate with the summoned monsters all they do is attack his foes, I would think that the summoned monsters would continue doing that (as a dead caster can't communicate)... I think witch's argument might be valid if they were summoned outside of combat by a master who could communicate with them to have them perform other tasks though. (You summon some formain to move some boxes to another room in your tower or something and then are ganked by a surprise attack, while in another room from the formains... IMO thye would continue moving the boxes until finished and then stand around until the duration expired unless attacked themselves most likley).
Witch
08-06-06, 05:19 PM based upon the summon monster spell I dissagree with the witch, since if a caster can't communicate with the summoned monsters all they do is attack his foes, I would think that the summoned monsters would continue doing that (as a dead caster can't communicate)... I think witch's argument might be valid if they were summoned outside of combat by a master who could communicate with them to have them perform other tasks though. (You summon some formain to move some boxes to another room in your tower or something and then are ganked by a surprise attack, while in another room from the formains... IMO thye would continue moving the boxes until finished and then stand around until the duration expired unless attacked themselves most likley).
A summoned monster does as commanded. If the command is "attack my foes", it continues doing so even after death. If the command is "move over there", then all it does is move over there.
DrMorganes
08-06-06, 05:46 PM Just to play Devil's Advocate:

In the absence of direction, how does a summoned creature determine a caster's "foes"? Once upon a time, "uncontrolled" summoned creatures would turn on the party. Is this still the case?
Thiez
08-06-06, 05:48 PM Those who killed the caster and/or attack his/her apparent allies are obviously his foes.
apocryphal_rumor
08-06-06, 06:02 PM Just to play Devil's Advocate:

In the absence of direction, how does a summoned creature determine a caster's "foes"? Once upon a time, "uncontrolled" summoned creatures would turn on the party. Is this still the case?

Which addition?
cwslyclgh
08-07-06, 10:17 AM A summoned monster does as commanded. If the command is "attack my foes", it continues doing so even after death. If the command is "move over there", then all it does is move over there.

from the SRD:

This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane). It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. attack your enemies is the default and requires no commands from you.

In the absence of direction, how does a summoned creature determine a caster's "foes"? that would be determined at the time the spell was cast, and would not change based upon the casters death.

Once upon a time, "uncontrolled" summoned creatures would turn on the party. Is this still the case? this was never the case except in the case of the older edition spell conjure elemental, and it wouldn't technically turn on the party, it would turn on the summoner if his concentration was inturupted (and I believe attack anything close to it in the case of the summoners death). The summon monster spells have never worked this way in the rules as written, although according to one source Gary Gygax used a house rule in his 1e home games that any summon monsters left over after an encounter would turn on the party.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
apocryphal_rumor 08-06-06, 12:03 PM	Hey, Group ran into a problem a few nights back and wanted to see if anyone on here knew if there was a specific rule to look at for a solution or if it should be house ruled. Does a caster's death impact a timed duration spell? Example: Wizard casts Summon Monster, poof, creatures appear and jump into the fray. Next round Wizard bites the big one and dies. Do the creatures simply vanish or do they continue until the end of the spell's duration?
Witch 08-06-06, 12:53 PM	They continue - but only until the last given order is completed. After that, they sit still and do nothing (except for maybe self-defense)
apocryphal_rumor 08-06-06, 01:22 PM	They continue - but only until the last given order is completed. After that, they sit still and do nothing (except for maybe self-defense) Witch, thanks for a reply, do you have a rule you're looking at for this or this a house rule?
cwslyclgh 08-06-06, 02:57 PM	Do the creatures simply vanish or do they continue until the end of the spell's duration? a spell lasts the listed duration once cast... the only spells that are affected by the casters death are those that require concentration. based upon the summon monster spell I dissagree with the witch, since if a caster can't communicate with the summoned monsters all they do is attack his foes, I would think that the summoned monsters would continue doing that (as a dead caster can't communicate)... I think witch's argument might be valid if they were summoned outside of combat by a master who could communicate with them to have them perform other tasks though. (You summon some formain to move some boxes to another room in your tower or something and then are ganked by a surprise attack, while in another room from the formains... IMO thye would continue moving the boxes until finished and then stand around until the duration expired unless attacked themselves most likley).
Witch 08-06-06, 05:19 PM	based upon the summon monster spell I dissagree with the witch, since if a caster can't communicate with the summoned monsters all they do is attack his foes, I would think that the summoned monsters would continue doing that (as a dead caster can't communicate)... I think witch's argument might be valid if they were summoned outside of combat by a master who could communicate with them to have them perform other tasks though. (You summon some formain to move some boxes to another room in your tower or something and then are ganked by a surprise attack, while in another room from the formains... IMO thye would continue moving the boxes until finished and then stand around until the duration expired unless attacked themselves most likley). A summoned monster does as commanded. If the command is "attack my foes", it continues doing so even after death. If the command is "move over there", then all it does is move over there.
DrMorganes 08-06-06, 05:46 PM	Just to play Devil's Advocate: In the absence of direction, how does a summoned creature determine a caster's "foes"? Once upon a time, "uncontrolled" summoned creatures would turn on the party. Is this still the case?
Thiez 08-06-06, 05:48 PM	Those who killed the caster and/or attack his/her apparent allies are obviously his foes.
apocryphal_rumor 08-06-06, 06:02 PM	Just to play Devil's Advocate: In the absence of direction, how does a summoned creature determine a caster's "foes"? Once upon a time, "uncontrolled" summoned creatures would turn on the party. Is this still the case? Which addition?
cwslyclgh 08-07-06, 10:17 AM	A summoned monster does as commanded. If the command is "attack my foes", it continues doing so even after death. If the command is "move over there", then all it does is move over there. from the SRD: This spell summons an extraplanar creature (typically an outsider, elemental, or magical beast native to another plane). It appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. attack your enemies is the default and requires no commands from you. In the absence of direction, how does a summoned creature determine a caster's "foes"? that would be determined at the time the spell was cast, and would not change based upon the casters death. Once upon a time, "uncontrolled" summoned creatures would turn on the party. Is this still the case? this was never the case except in the case of the older edition spell conjure elemental, and it wouldn't technically turn on the party, it would turn on the summoner if his concentration was inturupted (and I believe attack anything close to it in the case of the summoners death). The summon monster spells have never worked this way in the rules as written, although according to one source Gary Gygax used a house rule in his 1e home games that any summon monsters left over after an encounter would turn on the party.