Casting in Antimagic zone [Archive] - Wizards Community

Casting in Antimagic zone [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Grifter0730
10-02-04, 08:22 PM The Initiate of Mystra feat gives a character the ability to make a check to be able to cast in an antimagic zone. Is there any other ways to do this without this feat?
kSquared
10-02-04, 08:29 PM I don't believe so. But you could always invent another feat and ask your DM.
RaistlinBN
10-02-04, 08:38 PM haha Sorry to bust in with the stupid question of the day...but which book is the "Initiate of Mystra" feat in? Sounds like a pretty cool feat, but I'm not sure if I'd pick it (seeing as it's only handy when the PC is actually in an Antimagic Zone).

Raist
Grifter0730
10-02-04, 08:50 PM haha Sorry to bust in with the stupid question of the day...but which book is the "Initiate of Mystra" feat in? Sounds like a pretty cool feat, but I'm not sure if I'd pick it (seeing as it's only handy when the PC is actually in an Antimagic Zone).

Well I'm building a defense-based cleric, and having this as a defense just seems cool. Then again, now that you mention it... being able to cast in an antimagic zone doesn't mean that all your buffs stay on anyway... damn... hmmmm.... gotta think this through.

Oh, and the feat is from Player's Guide to Faerun, it's right before the Spells section.
kSquared
10-02-04, 08:58 PM It does other things besides let you cast in an antimagic zone IIRC. It's really for clerics of Mystra. It puts a bunch of other spells on your class spell list, and it lets you cast in dead magic zones as well.
Ishlyn
10-02-04, 11:06 PM I don't know what the feat does and I don't know Faerun really well but I do know you can cast spells inside an antimagic field with no problem it just count's against the spells duration. So am I right in thinking that this feat will allow your spells to be unaffected by the ATM?
kSquared
10-02-04, 11:18 PM So am I right in thinking that this feat will allow your spells to be unaffected by the ATM?You'd be hard-pressed to find a cash dispenser in Faerun. Most people would probably consider an item that dispensed virtually unlimited amounts of money to be an artifact. =)

But in any case, Initiate of Mystra lets you have a line of effect through an antimagic field if and only if you succeed a caster level check. It doesn't let your spells overpower the field. Your spell effects would still be suppressed in the field, but your spell wouldn't be wasted.

Antimagic fields
Block casters' lines of effect;
Mystra feat can help.
Grifter0730
10-02-04, 11:27 PM But in any case, Initiate of Mystra lets you have a line of effect through an antimagic field if and only if you succeed a caster level check. It doesn't let your spells overpower the field. Your spell effects would still be suppressed in the field, but your spell wouldn't be wasted.

Hmmm... I'm confused. I know that you have to succeed the caster level check, but I figured a success on the caster level check means that your spell works inside the antimagic field. That's what you're saying, right?
Ishlyn
10-02-04, 11:31 PM Ah thanks for the explanation and I mistyped AMF for ATM im so tired lol 8 )
kSquared
10-03-04, 12:00 AM Hmmm... I'm confused. I know that you have to succeed the caster level check, but I figured a success on the caster level check means that your spell works inside the antimagic field. That's what you're saying, right?No. Let's compare two fictitious players - Grumpykins the priest (with Initiate of Mystra) and Flossybobble the wizard (doesn't have Initiate of Mystra). Grumpykins and Flossybobble are both inside an antimagic field. They're taking potshots at a rabbit who's standing outside the AMF.

Case 1: Flossybobble casts a spell at the rabbit.
Result: Spell automatically fails. Flossybobble doesn't have a line of effect to the rabbit, since his line would pass through a square containing an antimagic field, which breaks LoE.

Case 2: Grumpykins casts a spell at the rabbit.
Result: Normally, spell automatically fails. Grumpykins uses IoM to make a caster level check. If she succeeds, the AMF is effectively not there for determining line of effect, so she can land a spell on the rabbit. The spell will also take effect normally since the rabbit is not in the AMF.

Case 3: Flossybobble casts a spell on himself.
Result: Spell succeeds (you always have line of effect to yourself), but effects are suppressed. Spells with instantaneous duration have no effect and are essentially wasted; spells with a duration would be suppressed until Flossybobble left the AMF.

Case 4: Flossybobble casts a spell on Grumpykins.
Result: Spell automatically fails. Flossybobble doesn't have line of effect to Grumpykins through an AMF. See case 1.

Case 5: Grumpykins casts a spell on Flossybobble.
Result: Normally, spell automatically fails. Grumpykins uses IoM to make a caster level check. If she succeeds, the AMF is effectively not there for determining line of effect, so she can land a spell on Flossybobble. However, unlike case 2, Flossybobble is inside the AMF, so the effects will be suppressed.
Grifter0730
10-03-04, 12:23 AM Wow, the rules are so confusing @_@; Thanks for taking the time to explain it, I would've never figured that on my own.
kSquared
10-03-04, 01:00 AM Well, borrowing a page from Seeker95's book, all of that above can be distilled down to:

(1) You need a line of effect to cast spells at a target.
<> (1a) You always have LoE to yourself.
(2) AMF blocks line of effect.
(3) Initiate of Mystra lets you ignore AMFs for purposes of LoE if you succeed the caster level check each time.

Make sense? =)
darczero
10-03-04, 01:12 AM Well, not that I use the FR pantheon, but my games do include a Deity of Magic (making that feat theoretically appropriate); however, it's undergoing a few changes when I get the time to pick through it (haven't bothered to read it yet myself).
Snicker-Snack
10-03-04, 05:56 AM (3) Initiate of Mystra lets you ignore AMFs for purposes of LoE if you succeed the caster level check each time.

I'm sorry, but do you have any sources that state that this is all that IoM would do?

Not that i doubt you, but i would really like to see something about this, because from my reading of the feat, it does seems that the spell would function normally inside AMF :).
kSquared
10-03-04, 09:02 AM It's in PGF, but we're not allowed to post non-OGL content here beause it's a copyright violation. You can describe generalities or explain stuff but you can't reprint. Sorry!
kSquared
10-03-04, 09:04 AM I'm sorry, but do you have any sources that state that this is all that IoM would do?And I didn't say that was all it does. If you read what I wrote above, it also adds a bunch of spells to your class spell list, and you can cast in dead magic zones by making a similar check.
Sisyfos
10-03-04, 09:11 AM Oh the famous "Cheater of Mystra" is out again. That one is probably the most combat effective character that can be made. A real campaign demolisher.

Anyhow. Some people argue that archmage's shaping ability allows forming antimagic fields, which have empty areas and holes so archmage can use it as an antimagic cover and then make a hole through, which he himself can cast spells at his opponents. Others argue that because AM field is an emanation you cannot take its center out. Let your DM decide if you want to go this route.
Grifter0730
10-03-04, 11:41 AM Cheater of Mystra? Is there a build for this?
Sisyfos
10-03-04, 12:00 PM Yep:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=248239&highlight=cheater+of+mystra

highlights:

without magic equipment:
AC: 63 (10 + 12 (fullplate) + 6 (animated shield) + 6 (deflection) + 21 (natural) - 2 (size) + 10 (circumstance))
Attack: +30/+25 ( 9 (BAB) +11 (str) + 6 (divine favor) + 4 (gmw)) [smile into the face of ANY monster]
Damage: 4d6 (huge darkwood greatsword) + 36
Votan
10-03-04, 01:04 PM The Initiate of Mystra feat gives a character the ability to make a check to be able to cast in an antimagic zone. Is there any other ways to do this without this feat?

No, and even this feat is an issue. It allows some extremely aggressive tactics at high levels where only the cleric can use magic. It probably wins the award for the most broken thing in the PGtF (or at least the easiest thing to abuse).
Snicker-Snack
10-03-04, 08:00 PM It's in PGF, but we're not allowed to post non-OGL content here beause it's a copyright violation. You can describe generalities or explain stuff but you can't reprint. Sorry!

And I didn't say that was all it does. If you read what I wrote above, it also adds a bunch of spells to your class spell list, and you can cast in dead magic zones by making a similar check.

I was referring only to the casting in AMF part (i am well aware of the Mystra only spells, that include the neat Holy star and [greater] anyspell in normal cleric slots). I have the book, and to me it seems that it will let your spell work as normal inside AMF.

What i wanted to know is that if you have any source that states that IoM will let your spell be cast but won't let it work inside AMF.
kSquared
10-03-04, 08:06 PM What i wanted to know is that if you have any source that states that IoM will let your spell be cast but won't let it work inside AMF.No, I don't. That's just my personal interpretation of this particular text. But see the RotG post that Skip has about AMFs.
dirkformica
10-03-04, 09:28 PM Not to steer this thread more off-topic, but it seems quite clear from the description of the Initiate of Mystra feat on page 81 of "Player's Guide to Faerun" that if you make the required check "your spell functions normally." There's never any mention of Line of Effect or anything like that, simply that the spell works.

And I'm also unaware of any other way to successfully cast in an Antimagic Zone, Grifter.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grifter0730 10-02-04, 08:22 PM	The Initiate of Mystra feat gives a character the ability to make a check to be able to cast in an antimagic zone. Is there any other ways to do this without this feat?
kSquared 10-02-04, 08:29 PM	I don't believe so. But you could always invent another feat and ask your DM.
RaistlinBN 10-02-04, 08:38 PM	haha Sorry to bust in with the stupid question of the day...but which book is the "Initiate of Mystra" feat in? Sounds like a pretty cool feat, but I'm not sure if I'd pick it (seeing as it's only handy when the PC is actually in an Antimagic Zone). Raist
Grifter0730 10-02-04, 08:50 PM	haha Sorry to bust in with the stupid question of the day...but which book is the "Initiate of Mystra" feat in? Sounds like a pretty cool feat, but I'm not sure if I'd pick it (seeing as it's only handy when the PC is actually in an Antimagic Zone). Well I'm building a defense-based cleric, and having this as a defense just seems cool. Then again, now that you mention it... being able to cast in an antimagic zone doesn't mean that all your buffs stay on anyway... damn... hmmmm.... gotta think this through. Oh, and the feat is from Player's Guide to Faerun, it's right before the Spells section.
kSquared 10-02-04, 08:58 PM	It does other things besides let you cast in an antimagic zone IIRC. It's really for clerics of Mystra. It puts a bunch of other spells on your class spell list, and it lets you cast in dead magic zones as well.
Ishlyn 10-02-04, 11:06 PM	I don't know what the feat does and I don't know Faerun really well but I do know you can cast spells inside an antimagic field with no problem it just count's against the spells duration. So am I right in thinking that this feat will allow your spells to be unaffected by the ATM?
kSquared 10-02-04, 11:18 PM	So am I right in thinking that this feat will allow your spells to be unaffected by the ATM?You'd be hard-pressed to find a cash dispenser in Faerun. Most people would probably consider an item that dispensed virtually unlimited amounts of money to be an artifact. =) But in any case, Initiate of Mystra lets you have a line of effect through an antimagic field if and only if you succeed a caster level check. It doesn't let your spells overpower the field. Your spell effects would still be suppressed in the field, but your spell wouldn't be wasted. Antimagic fields Block casters' lines of effect; Mystra feat can help.
Grifter0730 10-02-04, 11:27 PM	But in any case, Initiate of Mystra lets you have a line of effect through an antimagic field if and only if you succeed a caster level check. It doesn't let your spells overpower the field. Your spell effects would still be suppressed in the field, but your spell wouldn't be wasted. Hmmm... I'm confused. I know that you have to succeed the caster level check, but I figured a success on the caster level check means that your spell works inside the antimagic field. That's what you're saying, right?
Ishlyn 10-02-04, 11:31 PM	Ah thanks for the explanation and I mistyped AMF for ATM im so tired lol 8 )
kSquared 10-03-04, 12:00 AM	Hmmm... I'm confused. I know that you have to succeed the caster level check, but I figured a success on the caster level check means that your spell works inside the antimagic field. That's what you're saying, right?No. Let's compare two fictitious players - Grumpykins the priest (with Initiate of Mystra) and Flossybobble the wizard (doesn't have Initiate of Mystra). Grumpykins and Flossybobble are both inside an antimagic field. They're taking potshots at a rabbit who's standing outside the AMF. Case 1: Flossybobble casts a spell at the rabbit. Result: Spell automatically fails. Flossybobble doesn't have a line of effect to the rabbit, since his line would pass through a square containing an antimagic field, which breaks LoE. Case 2: Grumpykins casts a spell at the rabbit. Result: Normally, spell automatically fails. Grumpykins uses IoM to make a caster level check. If she succeeds, the AMF is effectively not there for determining line of effect, so she can land a spell on the rabbit. The spell will also take effect normally since the rabbit is not in the AMF. Case 3: Flossybobble casts a spell on himself. Result: Spell succeeds (you always have line of effect to yourself), but effects are suppressed. Spells with instantaneous duration have no effect and are essentially wasted; spells with a duration would be suppressed until Flossybobble left the AMF. Case 4: Flossybobble casts a spell on Grumpykins. Result: Spell automatically fails. Flossybobble doesn't have line of effect to Grumpykins through an AMF. See case 1. Case 5: Grumpykins casts a spell on Flossybobble. Result: Normally, spell automatically fails. Grumpykins uses IoM to make a caster level check. If she succeeds, the AMF is effectively not there for determining line of effect, so she can land a spell on Flossybobble. However, unlike case 2, Flossybobble is inside the AMF, so the effects will be suppressed.
Grifter0730 10-03-04, 12:23 AM	Wow, the rules are so confusing @_@; Thanks for taking the time to explain it, I would've never figured that on my own.
kSquared 10-03-04, 01:00 AM	Well, borrowing a page from Seeker95's book, all of that above can be distilled down to: (1) You need a line of effect to cast spells at a target. <> (1a) You always have LoE to yourself. (2) AMF blocks line of effect. (3) Initiate of Mystra lets you ignore AMFs for purposes of LoE if you succeed the caster level check each time. Make sense? =)
darczero 10-03-04, 01:12 AM	Well, not that I use the FR pantheon, but my games do include a Deity of Magic (making that feat theoretically appropriate); however, it's undergoing a few changes when I get the time to pick through it (haven't bothered to read it yet myself).
Snicker-Snack 10-03-04, 05:56 AM	(3) Initiate of Mystra lets you ignore AMFs for purposes of LoE if you succeed the caster level check each time. I'm sorry, but do you have any sources that state that this is all that IoM would do? Not that i doubt you, but i would really like to see something about this, because from my reading of the feat, it does seems that the spell would function normally inside AMF :).
kSquared 10-03-04, 09:02 AM	It's in PGF, but we're not allowed to post non-OGL content here beause it's a copyright violation. You can describe generalities or explain stuff but you can't reprint. Sorry!
kSquared 10-03-04, 09:04 AM	I'm sorry, but do you have any sources that state that this is all that IoM would do?And I didn't say that was all it does. If you read what I wrote above, it also adds a bunch of spells to your class spell list, and you can cast in dead magic zones by making a similar check.
Sisyfos 10-03-04, 09:11 AM	Oh the famous "Cheater of Mystra" is out again. That one is probably the most combat effective character that can be made. A real campaign demolisher. Anyhow. Some people argue that archmage's shaping ability allows forming antimagic fields, which have empty areas and holes so archmage can use it as an antimagic cover and then make a hole through, which he himself can cast spells at his opponents. Others argue that because AM field is an emanation you cannot take its center out. Let your DM decide if you want to go this route.
Grifter0730 10-03-04, 11:41 AM	Cheater of Mystra? Is there a build for this?
Sisyfos 10-03-04, 12:00 PM	Yep: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=248239&highlight=cheater+of+mystra highlights: without magic equipment: AC: 63 (10 + 12 (fullplate) + 6 (animated shield) + 6 (deflection) + 21 (natural) - 2 (size) + 10 (circumstance)) Attack: +30/+25 ( 9 (BAB) +11 (str) + 6 (divine favor) + 4 (gmw)) [smile into the face of ANY monster] Damage: 4d6 (huge darkwood greatsword) + 36
Votan 10-03-04, 01:04 PM	The Initiate of Mystra feat gives a character the ability to make a check to be able to cast in an antimagic zone. Is there any other ways to do this without this feat? No, and even this feat is an issue. It allows some extremely aggressive tactics at high levels where only the cleric can use magic. It probably wins the award for the most broken thing in the PGtF (or at least the easiest thing to abuse).
Snicker-Snack 10-03-04, 08:00 PM	It's in PGF, but we're not allowed to post non-OGL content here beause it's a copyright violation. You can describe generalities or explain stuff but you can't reprint. Sorry! And I didn't say that was all it does. If you read what I wrote above, it also adds a bunch of spells to your class spell list, and you can cast in dead magic zones by making a similar check. I was referring only to the casting in AMF part (i am well aware of the Mystra only spells, that include the neat Holy star and [greater] anyspell in normal cleric slots). I have the book, and to me it seems that it will let your spell work as normal inside AMF. What i wanted to know is that if you have any source that states that IoM will let your spell be cast but won't let it work inside AMF.
kSquared 10-03-04, 08:06 PM	What i wanted to know is that if you have any source that states that IoM will let your spell be cast but won't let it work inside AMF.No, I don't. That's just my personal interpretation of this particular text. But see the RotG post that Skip has about AMFs.
dirkformica 10-03-04, 09:28 PM	Not to steer this thread more off-topic, but it seems quite clear from the description of the Initiate of Mystra feat on page 81 of "Player's Guide to Faerun" that if you make the required check "your spell functions normally." There's never any mention of Line of Effect or anything like that, simply that the spell works. And I'm also unaware of any other way to successfully cast in an Antimagic Zone, Grifter.