Casting lev3 spell being ECL 5? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Casting lev3 spell being ECL 5? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bjorsa
04-24-08, 10:06 AM What I'm looking for is some sort of item, scroll, feat, special career path or other trick that lets a character (arcane) cast a spell of a higher level, even if only for a limited number of times. I read through the Raising Caster Level (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=615672) thread but it's focused on simply raising CL to boost the effects of spells already known. What if I need access to a spell of a higher SL than normally allowed? I'm familiar with the Precocious Apprentice feat and it's just the type of thing I'm looking for. Is there something similar for higher levels?
Any way I can ever cast (and make the scroll myself, if I take the scroll route) a level 3 spell as an arcanist of level 4?

This also would be interesting, as sometimes, to qualify for a feat (e.g. Sorcerer: Practical Metamagic) or PrC or whatever, you need to "be able to cast and prepare" spells of a certain level. Surely there are work-arounds?
Kouk
04-24-08, 10:27 AM You can try to cast spells on Scrolls with higher CL than you are actually able of casting yourself, and Wands up to level 4 spells, and Staffs for higher than that.
There are plenty of items that can cast spells for you, like Rods or Rings, etc.

You still are not casting it "yourself" to qualify for prestige classes though.

I don't know what you mean by asking if you can make level 3 Scrolls if you are a level 5 arcane caster. Depending on what class you are, you may already know 3rd level spells. If your class does not grant access to 3rd level spells by 5th character level, then you can't make items with them yourself, but you are free to try to use scrolls with spells on your class list if you make the caster level check.

Scrolls
A scroll is a spell (or collection of spells) that has been stored in written form. A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated. Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell.

Physical Description
A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8 ½ inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 ½ inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. A scroll has AC 9, 1 hit point, hardness 0, and a break DC of 8.

To protect it from wrinkling or tearing, a scroll is rolled up from both ends to form a double cylinder. (This also helps the user unroll the scroll quickly.) The scroll is placed in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood. Most scroll cases are inscribed with magic symbols which often identify the owner or the spells stored on the scrolls inside. The symbols often hide magic traps.

Activation
To activate a scroll, a spellcaster must read the spell written on it. Doing so involves several steps and conditions.

Decipher the Writing
The writing on a scroll must be deciphered before a character can use it or know exactly what spell it contains. This requires a read magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level).

Deciphering a scroll to determine its contents does not activate its magic unless it is a specially prepared cursed scroll. A character can decipher the writing on a scroll in advance so that he or she can proceed directly to the next step when the time comes to use the scroll.
Activate the Spell

Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.

To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.

* The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
* The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
* The user must have the requisite ability score.

If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.

Determine Effect
A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1), unless the caster specifically desires otherwise.

The writing for an activated spell disappears from the scroll.

Scroll Mishaps
When a mishap occurs, the spell on the scroll has a reversed or harmful effect. Possible mishaps are given below.

* A surge of uncontrolled magical energy deals 1d6 points of damage per spell level to the scroll user.
* Spell strikes the scroll user or an ally instead of the intended target, or a random target nearby if the scroll user was the intended recipient.
* Spell takes effect at some random location within spell range.
* Spell’s effect on the target is contrary to the spell’s normal effect.
* The scroll user suffers some minor but bizarre effect related to the spell in some way. Most such effects should last only as long as the original spell’s duration, or 2d10 minutes for instantaneous spells.
* Some innocuous item or items appear in the spell’s area.
* Spell has delayed effect. Sometime within the next 1d12 hours, the spell activates. If the scroll user was the intended recipient, the spell takes effect normally. If the user was not the intended recipient, the spell goes off in the general direction of the original recipient or target, up to the spell’s maximum range, if the target has moved away.

Several arcane spells are different in level for sorcerers and wizards than they are for bards. Such spells appear on the table at the level appropriate to a sorcerer or wizard (considered the default because bards typically don’t involve themselves in scribing scrolls).

Likewise, some divine spells are different in level for clerics and druids than they are for paladins and rangers. Such spells appear at the level appropriate to a cleric or druid (considered the default because paladins and rangers typically don’t involve themselves in scribing scrolls).

If a divine spell is cast at different levels by clerics and druids, it appears at the level appropriate to a cleric (considered the default choice between clerics and druids).

Many spells are either arcane or divine, depending on the class of the caster. Such spells appear on both lists at the level appropriate to the class of the arcane or divine caster.

EDIT: To activate scrolls more reliably, you may need to boost your casting stat with items. You can also use magical items using Use Magic Device skill checks, but you don't need if you are already a caster and trying spells on your own possible class spell list.

Another way to boost your spellcasting ability is with Practiced Spellcaster, which raises your CL by up to 4 (not to exceed your total class levels), which allows multiclassed or classes without full casting progresion characters to cast spells (use items, etc) as if they were higher CL. Just works on your existing CL, it doesn't grant you new spells known or spell levels you don't already have.
bjorsa
04-24-08, 10:56 AM Other than scroll then? To "spontaneously cast" a spell of higher level?
ShadeSeraph
04-24-08, 11:14 AM Take a look at this:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=655556

It's cheesy, but it is the only way I can think. If you only want to cast spells as "one level higher" than your max level spells, the feats Heighten Spell + Earth Spell lets you to increase the spell level further than you could usually use. It doesn't allow you to cast spells from that level, though, you would only be able to increase spells you already have access to one level higher than you could.
GalaGalaxia
04-24-08, 05:26 PM Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) ... if you're a kobold.

You can gain a CL (and spells known/spells per day) as a caster 1 level higher than your class levels.
Kouk
04-24-08, 06:00 PM Other than scroll then? To "spontaneously cast" a spell of higher level?

Pretty much just items as far as I know. Wands of Magic Missile, Ring of Blinking, etc. Custom magic items are not that tough to make either.

Casting powerful spells is kind of what the appeal of being a real spellcaster is.

If you gave more information about the character though, perhaps it could give us some more ideas.
bjorsa
04-24-08, 07:37 PM The character I had in mind is a Dragonborn Sorcerer. I'm trying to sneak in the feat Practical Metamagic before actually being "able to spontaneously cast 3rd level spells" which is the most troublesome prereq. (Races of the Dragon p108)
The character took one monster level and thus wasn't able to chose this feat when hitting ECL6, since that meant CL5 and thus only 2nd level spells. Or at least that was what I thought before I started to lurk these forums...

I was considering the Practised Spellcaster feat but it seems it doesn't solve the problem, only raises CL for spells already known. Also, I need my feats so it would be better if I can solve this by spending money or something.

I'm taking Monster Subst 1 (Fey), Dragonblood Sorc 1, Sorc 3, MotAO 4 and then I7V. Perhaps squeeze in a level of Incantatar. Anyways, I'm opting in on Wings of Flurry, with Arcane Thesis, Accelerate Meta Empower & Twin and Quicken with alternate class feature Metamagic Specialist. I don't need to tell you why I want that Practical Metamagic ASAP? It would enable me to empower WoF right from the start @CL8 and I want it - I have no other DD spell to play with, only the classic protections, ray de-buffs, glitterdust and dispel stuff.

WoF btw is in itself reason enough to keep Evo school if you ask me. Uncapped D6/CL and Reflex-or-suck, cheezus. With the right feats @CL12 (+2ArcThes, +1DragonBlood =15) I can dish out (15xD6=)79DD quickened + (79x2=)158 twinned later in round (or 270 w. sudden max); if they fail the Reflexes they are also free game for the rest of the party.
Carrion_Buffet
04-25-08, 06:12 PM If you can't find it...ask your dm to make a ruling on a custom feat and work out the details.

my 2 cents
GalaGalaxia
04-25-08, 08:50 PM Well, I already gave you the feat above. Just be a Dragonborn Kobold sorcerer ... Not only will you be able to qualify for things one level earlier, but you will always have a caster level and spells known/spells per day as a sorcerer of your character level +1. That, my friend, is really what you want.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bjorsa 04-24-08, 10:06 AM	What I'm looking for is some sort of item, scroll, feat, special career path or other trick that lets a character (arcane) cast a spell of a higher level, even if only for a limited number of times. I read through the Raising Caster Level (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=615672) thread but it's focused on simply raising CL to boost the effects of spells already known. What if I need access to a spell of a higher SL than normally allowed? I'm familiar with the Precocious Apprentice feat and it's just the type of thing I'm looking for. Is there something similar for higher levels? Any way I can ever cast (and make the scroll myself, if I take the scroll route) a level 3 spell as an arcanist of level 4? This also would be interesting, as sometimes, to qualify for a feat (e.g. Sorcerer: Practical Metamagic) or PrC or whatever, you need to "be able to cast and prepare" spells of a certain level. Surely there are work-arounds?
Kouk 04-24-08, 10:27 AM	You can try to cast spells on Scrolls with higher CL than you are actually able of casting yourself, and Wands up to level 4 spells, and Staffs for higher than that. There are plenty of items that can cast spells for you, like Rods or Rings, etc. You still are not casting it "yourself" to qualify for prestige classes though. I don't know what you mean by asking if you can make level 3 Scrolls if you are a level 5 arcane caster. Depending on what class you are, you may already know 3rd level spells. If your class does not grant access to 3rd level spells by 5th character level, then you can't make items with them yourself, but you are free to try to use scrolls with spells on your class list if you make the caster level check. Scrolls A scroll is a spell (or collection of spells) that has been stored in written form. A spell on a scroll can be used only once. The writing vanishes from the scroll when the spell is activated. Using a scroll is basically like casting a spell. Physical Description A scroll is a heavy sheet of fine vellum or high-quality paper. An area about 8 ½ inches wide and 11 inches long is sufficient to hold one spell. The sheet is reinforced at the top and bottom with strips of leather slightly longer than the sheet is wide. A scroll holding more than one spell has the same width (about 8 ½ inches) but is an extra foot or so long for each extra spell. Scrolls that hold three or more spells are usually fitted with reinforcing rods at each end rather than simple strips of leather. A scroll has AC 9, 1 hit point, hardness 0, and a break DC of 8. To protect it from wrinkling or tearing, a scroll is rolled up from both ends to form a double cylinder. (This also helps the user unroll the scroll quickly.) The scroll is placed in a tube of ivory, jade, leather, metal, or wood. Most scroll cases are inscribed with magic symbols which often identify the owner or the spells stored on the scrolls inside. The symbols often hide magic traps. Activation To activate a scroll, a spellcaster must read the spell written on it. Doing so involves several steps and conditions. Decipher the Writing The writing on a scroll must be deciphered before a character can use it or know exactly what spell it contains. This requires a read magic spell or a successful Spellcraft check (DC 20 + spell level). Deciphering a scroll to determine its contents does not activate its magic unless it is a specially prepared cursed scroll. A character can decipher the writing on a scroll in advance so that he or she can proceed directly to the next step when the time comes to use the scroll. Activate the Spell Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance. To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements. * The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.) * The user must have the spell on his or her class list. * The user must have the requisite ability score. If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers. Determine Effect A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll (usually twice the spell’s level, minus 1), unless the caster specifically desires otherwise. The writing for an activated spell disappears from the scroll. Scroll Mishaps When a mishap occurs, the spell on the scroll has a reversed or harmful effect. Possible mishaps are given below. * A surge of uncontrolled magical energy deals 1d6 points of damage per spell level to the scroll user. * Spell strikes the scroll user or an ally instead of the intended target, or a random target nearby if the scroll user was the intended recipient. * Spell takes effect at some random location within spell range. * Spell’s effect on the target is contrary to the spell’s normal effect. * The scroll user suffers some minor but bizarre effect related to the spell in some way. Most such effects should last only as long as the original spell’s duration, or 2d10 minutes for instantaneous spells. * Some innocuous item or items appear in the spell’s area. * Spell has delayed effect. Sometime within the next 1d12 hours, the spell activates. If the scroll user was the intended recipient, the spell takes effect normally. If the user was not the intended recipient, the spell goes off in the general direction of the original recipient or target, up to the spell’s maximum range, if the target has moved away. Several arcane spells are different in level for sorcerers and wizards than they are for bards. Such spells appear on the table at the level appropriate to a sorcerer or wizard (considered the default because bards typically don’t involve themselves in scribing scrolls). Likewise, some divine spells are different in level for clerics and druids than they are for paladins and rangers. Such spells appear at the level appropriate to a cleric or druid (considered the default because paladins and rangers typically don’t involve themselves in scribing scrolls). If a divine spell is cast at different levels by clerics and druids, it appears at the level appropriate to a cleric (considered the default choice between clerics and druids). Many spells are either arcane or divine, depending on the class of the caster. Such spells appear on both lists at the level appropriate to the class of the arcane or divine caster. EDIT: To activate scrolls more reliably, you may need to boost your casting stat with items. You can also use magical items using Use Magic Device skill checks, but you don't need if you are already a caster and trying spells on your own possible class spell list. Another way to boost your spellcasting ability is with Practiced Spellcaster, which raises your CL by up to 4 (not to exceed your total class levels), which allows multiclassed or classes without full casting progresion characters to cast spells (use items, etc) as if they were higher CL. Just works on your existing CL, it doesn't grant you new spells known or spell levels you don't already have.
bjorsa 04-24-08, 10:56 AM	Other than scroll then? To "spontaneously cast" a spell of higher level?
ShadeSeraph 04-24-08, 11:14 AM	Take a look at this: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=655556 It's cheesy, but it is the only way I can think. If you only want to cast spells as "one level higher" than your max level spells, the feats Heighten Spell + Earth Spell lets you to increase the spell level further than you could usually use. It doesn't allow you to cast spells from that level, though, you would only be able to increase spells you already have access to one level higher than you could.
GalaGalaxia 04-24-08, 05:26 PM	Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) ... if you're a kobold. You can gain a CL (and spells known/spells per day) as a caster 1 level higher than your class levels.
Kouk 04-24-08, 06:00 PM	Other than scroll then? To "spontaneously cast" a spell of higher level? Pretty much just items as far as I know. Wands of Magic Missile, Ring of Blinking, etc. Custom magic items are not that tough to make either. Casting powerful spells is kind of what the appeal of being a real spellcaster is. If you gave more information about the character though, perhaps it could give us some more ideas.
bjorsa 04-24-08, 07:37 PM	The character I had in mind is a Dragonborn Sorcerer. I'm trying to sneak in the feat Practical Metamagic before actually being "able to spontaneously cast 3rd level spells" which is the most troublesome prereq. (Races of the Dragon p108) The character took one monster level and thus wasn't able to chose this feat when hitting ECL6, since that meant CL5 and thus only 2nd level spells. Or at least that was what I thought before I started to lurk these forums... I was considering the Practised Spellcaster feat but it seems it doesn't solve the problem, only raises CL for spells already known. Also, I need my feats so it would be better if I can solve this by spending money or something. I'm taking Monster Subst 1 (Fey), Dragonblood Sorc 1, Sorc 3, MotAO 4 and then I7V. Perhaps squeeze in a level of Incantatar. Anyways, I'm opting in on Wings of Flurry, with Arcane Thesis, Accelerate Meta Empower & Twin and Quicken with alternate class feature Metamagic Specialist. I don't need to tell you why I want that Practical Metamagic ASAP? It would enable me to empower WoF right from the start @CL8 and I want it - I have no other DD spell to play with, only the classic protections, ray de-buffs, glitterdust and dispel stuff. WoF btw is in itself reason enough to keep Evo school if you ask me. Uncapped D6/CL and Reflex-or-suck, cheezus. With the right feats @CL12 (+2ArcThes, +1DragonBlood =15) I can dish out (15xD6=)79DD quickened + (79x2=)158 twinned later in round (or 270 w. sudden max); if they fail the Reflexes they are also free game for the rest of the party.
Carrion_Buffet 04-25-08, 06:12 PM	If you can't find it...ask your dm to make a ruling on a custom feat and work out the details. my 2 cents
GalaGalaxia 04-25-08, 08:50 PM	Well, I already gave you the feat above. Just be a Dragonborn Kobold sorcerer ... Not only will you be able to qualify for things one level earlier, but you will always have a caster level and spells known/spells per day as a sorcerer of your character level +1. That, my friend, is really what you want.