Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cmrscorpio 06-30-05, 09:05 AM	Now, I'd like to point out something that has always confused me. The SRD says (highlighted areas are my own emphasis): Animate Dead Necromancy [Evil] Level: Clr 3, Death 3, Sor/Wiz 4 Components: V, S, M Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: One or more corpses touched Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell turns the bones or bodies of dead creatures into undead skeletons or zombies that follow your spoken commands. The undead can follow you, or they can remain in an area and attack any creature (or just a specific kind of creature) entering the place. They remain animated until they are destroyed. (A destroyed skeleton or zombie can’t be animated again.) Regardless of the type of undead you create with this spell, you can’t create more HD of undead than twice your caster level with a single casting of animate dead. (The desecrate spell doubles this limit) The undead you create remain under your control indefinitely. No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) If you are a cleric, any undead you might command by virtue of your power to command or rebuke undead do not count toward the limit. Skeletons: A skeleton can be created only from a mostly intact corpse or skeleton. The corpse must have bones. If a skeleton is made from a corpse, the flesh falls off the bones. Zombies: A zombie can be created only from a mostly intact corpse. The corpse must be that of a creature with a true anatomy. Material Component: You must place a black onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead into the mouth or eye socket of each corpse you intend to animate. The magic of the spell turns these gems into worthless, burned-out shells. Am I reading this wrong because the way I read it, I can use multiple castings of spells to control undead that I've made up to a total of 4 HD. I've seen many people on this board talking about only being able to control 2 HD of undead, and the Libris Mortis Deathbound domain ability seems to say that too.
Vathelokai 06-30-05, 09:14 AM	I don't have the books on hand, but if memory serves, the clerical ability to control undead (with turn check) is 2hd and the arcane spell animate dead allows the control of 4hd.
Venom of the Yuan Ti 06-30-05, 09:19 AM	I don't have the books on hand, but if memory serves, the clerical ability to control undead (with turn check) is 2hd and the arcane spell animate dead allows the control of 4hd. BUT, here is the cool thing, they are seperate! So true necromancers/ mystic therges can get 6Xhd!
Jaid 06-30-05, 02:30 PM	actually, as i understand it, as a TN or MT, you count your arcane CL and your divine CL separately. IOW, you can get 4* arcane CL + 4 * divine CL + 2 * turning level.
Witchblade 06-30-05, 02:43 PM	Am I reading this wrong because the way I read it, I can use multiple castings of spells to control undead that I've made up to a total of 4 HD. You're reading it right. And Jaid is also right, I think.
cmrscorpio 06-30-05, 07:12 PM	I don't have the books on hand, but if memory serves, the clerical ability to control undead (with turn check) is 2hd Ok, here is another issue that I've seen and been confused about. People saying the cleric can command 2HD per turning level. If this due to a special power I'm not accounting for? Commanded: A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones.
Vathelokai 07-01-05, 02:56 AM	I'm not sure I understand your question, but I'll give it a shot... Merrik the Cleric gets bored one day and casts animate dead. He's tenth level so he creates 20 one hd skeletons, which are automaticly under his control via spell. Merrik takes his twenty skeletons and attacks a rival necromancer. Merrik immidiately uses a turn check to gain control of 10 one hd zombies in the front room of the mansion. This gives him 20 controled by spell and 10 controled by holy charisma. Then, Merrik marches his thirty creatures into the dungeon and wages a huge battle. All of his skeletons are destroyed. Merrik uses another turn check to try to take control of 20 more one hd zombies. He rolls excelently, but his max of holy charisma controled creatures is still 20 (lv x 2), so he's stuck with 20 zombies, even though he was controling thirty creatures two rounds earlier. Because he is in the middle of a pitched battle, Merrik cannot cast animate dead again. Then, Merrik and all of the zombies are destroyed, because necromancy dosn't pay. Did that help, or are you more confused now?
MrkGrismer 07-01-05, 10:49 AM	I believe the question is where are people coming up with 2HD per caster level when the rules only state one HD: Commanded: A commanded undead creature is under the mental control of the evil cleric. The cleric must take a standard action to give mental orders to a commanded undead. At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level. He may voluntarily relinquish command on any commanded undead creature or creatures in order to command new ones. As far as Animate Dead goes: No matter how many times you use this spell, however, you can control only 4 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly created creatures fall under your control, and any excess undead from previous castings become uncontrolled. (You choose which creatures are released.) If you are a cleric, any undead you might command by virtue of your power to command or rebuke undead do not count toward the limit. Which I consider pretty much the 'animated dead pool', a seperate reserve of 4HD/CL. Then we have Control Undead, which does not appear to have any HD limits. Then there is Command Undead, which I treat the same as Charm Monster, no limit. Create Undead and Create Greater undead do not put undead under the caster's control, they must be controlled either using the Turn/Rebuke ability (and HD limits) or the above spells (I recommend Command Undead, no limit and Days/level). I also recommend a wand.
cmrscorpio 07-01-05, 12:36 PM	Merrik uses another turn check to try to take control of 20 more one hd zombies. He rolls excelently, but his max of holy charisma controled creatures is still 20 (lv x 2), so he's stuck with 20 zombies, even though he was controling thirty creatures two rounds earlier. This is exactly the thing I am asking about, because you say that his turning attempt gives him levelx2 in undead HD to command. The point I am making is that the section on Turning and Rebuking says (quoted in my previous post) that a cleric cannot command more HD than his level. Clerics command (using rebukes/day) undead HD of Cleric level x 1, not Cleric level x 2. And casters with the animate dead spell get 4xcaster level. I'm going to demonstrate what all I am saying over in the Classes board. Here's a link:http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6585994#post6585994
Vathelokai 07-01-05, 12:51 PM	I apologize. It is one times cleric level. That's what I get for posting in the middle of the night.