Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tenken 03-20-06, 11:25 AM	Hi, I'm trying to create a character that uses two daggers while fighting, but I want him to be able to cast spells as well. I notice that the Daggerspell Mage/Shaper can both cast spells with somatic components even while wielding the two daggers without using a higher level spell slot. Is there any other way to do this without going through that prestige class?
tarkin 03-20-06, 11:51 AM	Sudden Still Spell and Divine Still Spell (uses up turn undeads) Other than that, I don't think so.
Emeramber 03-20-06, 02:27 PM	The Havok Mage has a useful ability, Battlecast. As a fullround action, you make a single melee attack and cast a spell. The spell may be cast without AoO and can be cast even if your hands are full. The level of spell this can be done with increases as you progress in the class. It's a 3/5 caster class with easy, generic prereqs and, if I remember, clerical BAB. Hope that helps.
smrtgmp 03-20-06, 05:42 PM	Play a psion.
Wyrd Bearer 03-20-06, 06:30 PM	I've considered in the past of working on a way to replace the level adjustment of most metamagic feats with a system that gives the caster a chance to alter spells with the feats they know without increasing the spell level but with a chance the spell would fail. Basically, I was playing around with the idea of it requiring either a Concentration or Spellcraft check, I'm not sure which would be more balanced to have, although spellcraft makes the most sense, set at DC 10 + spell level + 5/adjusted level listed under the metamagic feat you're attempting to use. For your example, say your character wanted to cast false life on himself a round prior to enganging in combat. He has the Still Spell feat which is normally +1 spell level. So to cast a stilled false life would be a DC 17 Spellcraft check else the spell outright fails. At 3rd level, the time a wizard could cast 2nd level spells, with the elite array, would have a +6-8 bonus [most likely has the bonus from Know(arcana)], so he'd need to roll at least a 9-11 to succeed [40%-55% chance of failure]. The caster would still need to know the feat and the casting time is unchanged, except for a sorcerer who would still require a full-round action to alter a spell in this way. This makes spellcasting less garuanteed and makes things a bit more interesting (there is that moment of suspense in climatic battles as the party looks on as the sorcerer attempts to improvize). The problems with this is that it effectively gives all prepared spellcasters the sorcerer's inherent flexibility with metamagic. It also makes metamagic feats like Maximize and Quicken spell available much earlier (a 5th level wizard could cast a maximized fireball six whole levels before they normally could; all that stands between them and massive damage is a DC 28 Spellcraft check [potential to succeed at 5th level: 5%-10%]). Although this is countered by the fact that a maximized CL 5 fireball deals 30 damage instead of the 60 that a normally maximized one would deal. This also allows for 9th level spells with metamagic applied to them prior to epic level (though I wish you luck casting that maximized meteor swarm at 17th level with that 65% chance of failure). So I'm still figuring out a way to make this feasible and balanced; I'm considering adding on a catastrophe to failed attempts, sort of like scroll mishaps. But, there you go, my unofficial method for handling that sort of situation. *edit* The figures I have given don't account for the Int bonus that wizards and certain intelligent casters will have to Spellcraft.
True Cavalier 03-20-06, 06:46 PM	Ask your DM if he will allow it, it's not a big deal, I think, to cast spells while holding weapons/shields. We always do it CRPG-style, and it's flavorful when you cast your spell through your weapon, for example. If that fails, ask him if you can tie your daggers with string to your gloves, so you can "drop" and "retrieve" them as a free action :p
Morotis 03-20-06, 07:14 PM	Wyrd Bearer, as much as I love your idea, At higher levels, it's way too easy to beat the DC. A ninth level maximized spell would have a DC of 34, not exactly difficult for your average 17th level wiz. I suggest making it take a full round action to use a metamagic spell in this way (basically making like a sorcerer's way) of course, then only wizards could use your varient rule...
Tempest Stormwind 03-20-06, 08:28 PM	There are numerous ways to pull this off -- bards, hexblades, and warlocks can cast in light armor already, and there's the Battlecaster feat to upgrade this to Medium. Knight Phantoms (the PRC in Five Nations; an Aundair mounted spell-using warrior specializing in Phantom Steed) gain a related ability at level 1, as well, though Still Spell is required to enter the class. Then, there are numerous methods of bypassing arcane spell failure anyway, and not all of them are level-based -- consider the Twilight enhancement (Book of Exalted Deeds) or the right special materials. This doesn't even delve at all into alternative systems that aren't plagued by the sacred cow of ASF, like psionics or even divine magic. Personally, I'm considering adopting a house rule that removes ASF altogether, but to add "caster level" to the list of things that nonproficiency applies the check penalty to. EDIT: Just carefully reread your post, and realized it wasn't armor that was your problem. Personally, I would attach a chain to each of your daggers' grips, so that you can let go, cast a spell, and retrieve them. There's no reason why this shouldn't be a free action.
runestar 03-20-06, 09:03 PM	Take the auto-still feat. You will need to be epic though. :P
Tenken 03-21-06, 08:12 AM	Thanks for all the help guys. Havoc Mage looks frikkin awesome, I gotta think that one through. Good to know what my options are.
sneak_Blast 03-21-06, 12:48 PM	What book is havoc mage in?
The_Blob 03-21-06, 01:03 PM	Isn't there a metamagic feat called "irresistable spell"? I think it's in one of the Kalamar Books, but I'm not sure... as I recall it was a +4 level increase, quite a heavy hit, but could be worth it with certain conjurations (since most, if not all of THEM don't allow SR!).