Casting through Wall of Force [Archive] - Wizards Community

Casting through Wall of Force [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
legba11
04-29-05, 11:53 AM This is a 3.0 campaign, nto sure if the spell changed.
WoF's description says spells like magic missle can't travel through it. makes sense.

It also says seplls like dimension door and teleport can go through it.

Both of those make sense to me, but what is qualification for passing through it?

obviosuly spells that start at the caster and fire out are blocked.

What about mind affecting spells like suggestion or charm person?

Flame Strike?

Can you turn through it?

Can you summon on the other side of it?
Seeker95
04-29-05, 12:33 PM teleport and dimension door target the caster. You can use this to get through a wall of force. However, you cannot use any spell that targets something on the other side of a wall of force. So the answer to all of your questions is "no".
tarkin
04-29-05, 12:51 PM That is not totally correct.

Wall of Force exist in the Material and ethereal plane. They block Line of Effect. Any spell that does not use Line of Effect can be cast through them.

All teleportation type spells do not need Line of Effect. You can for example, use a spell like Teleport Object to dump a vial of acid on someone on the other side of a Wall of Force. Similarly,you may use the Wish spell to Teleport someone from outside a Wall of Force to a position next to you.

There are several other Teleport spells, including ones that let you "switch places" with other creatures. These do not require Line of Effect, and as such will work through a Wall of Force.

There are other spells, non-teleport that do not need Line of Effect as well, but they are rare.

Then there are "light based cheats". For example, if you were to use a spell to gain a magical "Horrific Appearance" effect, the magic of the ability would work through the Wall of Force because it just needs Line of Sight, not Line of Effect.
Sentinel of Bharrai
04-29-05, 01:29 PM Regardless of the rules, I would house hule that Flame Strike, or Call Lightning, can affect a creature on the other side of a wall of force. I personally don't think the spell was meant to stop those kind of spells as long as the spell doesn't actually have to go through the wall. Spells like Rain of Embers from BoED would work too, at least IMO.
legba11
04-29-05, 02:01 PM Is there any official statement for the can't target rule?

I tried to search for it, but didn't find anything.
tarkin
04-29-05, 02:55 PM You do bring up a good point.

For Burst and Spread spells, you only need Line of Effect to the point of origin. Spreads can even go around corners, making it a legal tactic if you aim it above the wall and let them spread.

I.E. If I am outside a room, I can aim a fireball through the door and when it explodes burn the people who were planning to ambush me by holding their bodies up against the wall by the door where I could not see /affect them.

Flame strike, being a cylinder can attack from above, thereby attacking through a Wall of Force, assuming the wall of force does nto touch a ceiling

For that matter if someone is flying just below a Wall of Force, you can aim a fireball for just above them and they will be hit by the fire ball.

But Call Lighting, is NOT like that. Call lighting may summon the lightning down, but it targets a particular 5ft square. You do nto summon a lightning bolt then aim it down, instead you summon a lightning bolt to that square.

As such, Wall of Force will easily stop it.
Seeker95
04-29-05, 03:04 PM Regardless of the rules, I would house rule that Flame Strike, or Call Lightning, can affect a creature on the other side of a wall of force.That isn't a house rule. That is the rules. :D The point of origin of these spells is not the same as the final destination. (Unless, as tarkin noted, the wall of force goes to the ceiling!)
Gnarl
04-29-05, 03:07 PM Is there any official statement for the can't target rule?

I tried to search for it, but didn't find anything.

Check out the line of effect entry in the player's handbook. It's not in the wall of force description.
Sentinel of Bharrai
04-29-05, 05:19 PM Just wondering...if you have two target on either side of Wall of Force, can you cast Flame Strike to affect them both (assuming their both within the area of effect?
surlykke
04-29-05, 05:56 PM a totally different question concerning Wall of Force.
The Description says one can create up to 10ft. Square pr CL
now is this a 10 by 10 square or ?? (though i doubt it)
Seeker95
04-29-05, 11:20 PM now is this a 10 by 10 square or ?? (though i doubt it)from the SRD:
Effect: Wall whose area is up to one 10-ft. square/level

So yes, it is a 10 by 10 square. However, it is "a flat, vertical plane whose area is up to one 10- foot square per level." This means the wall has "zero" thickness, and for each caster level, this plane (pane!) can be up to 10 feet wide and 10 feet tall. Not 10' sqaures on a grid.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
legba11 04-29-05, 11:53 AM	This is a 3.0 campaign, nto sure if the spell changed. WoF's description says spells like magic missle can't travel through it. makes sense. It also says seplls like dimension door and teleport can go through it. Both of those make sense to me, but what is qualification for passing through it? obviosuly spells that start at the caster and fire out are blocked. What about mind affecting spells like suggestion or charm person? Flame Strike? Can you turn through it? Can you summon on the other side of it?
Seeker95 04-29-05, 12:33 PM	teleport and dimension door target the caster. You can use this to get through a wall of force. However, you cannot use any spell that targets something on the other side of a wall of force. So the answer to all of your questions is "no".
tarkin 04-29-05, 12:51 PM	That is not totally correct. Wall of Force exist in the Material and ethereal plane. They block Line of Effect. Any spell that does not use Line of Effect can be cast through them. All teleportation type spells do not need Line of Effect. You can for example, use a spell like Teleport Object to dump a vial of acid on someone on the other side of a Wall of Force. Similarly,you may use the Wish spell to Teleport someone from outside a Wall of Force to a position next to you. There are several other Teleport spells, including ones that let you "switch places" with other creatures. These do not require Line of Effect, and as such will work through a Wall of Force. There are other spells, non-teleport that do not need Line of Effect as well, but they are rare. Then there are "light based cheats". For example, if you were to use a spell to gain a magical "Horrific Appearance" effect, the magic of the ability would work through the Wall of Force because it just needs Line of Sight, not Line of Effect.
Sentinel of Bharrai 04-29-05, 01:29 PM	Regardless of the rules, I would house hule that Flame Strike, or Call Lightning, can affect a creature on the other side of a wall of force. I personally don't think the spell was meant to stop those kind of spells as long as the spell doesn't actually have to go through the wall. Spells like Rain of Embers from BoED would work too, at least IMO.
legba11 04-29-05, 02:01 PM	Is there any official statement for the can't target rule? I tried to search for it, but didn't find anything.
tarkin 04-29-05, 02:55 PM	You do bring up a good point. For Burst and Spread spells, you only need Line of Effect to the point of origin. Spreads can even go around corners, making it a legal tactic if you aim it above the wall and let them spread. I.E. If I am outside a room, I can aim a fireball through the door and when it explodes burn the people who were planning to ambush me by holding their bodies up against the wall by the door where I could not see /affect them. Flame strike, being a cylinder can attack from above, thereby attacking through a Wall of Force, assuming the wall of force does nto touch a ceiling For that matter if someone is flying just below a Wall of Force, you can aim a fireball for just above them and they will be hit by the fire ball. But Call Lighting, is NOT like that. Call lighting may summon the lightning down, but it targets a particular 5ft square. You do nto summon a lightning bolt then aim it down, instead you summon a lightning bolt to that square. As such, Wall of Force will easily stop it.
Seeker95 04-29-05, 03:04 PM	Regardless of the rules, I would house rule that Flame Strike, or Call Lightning, can affect a creature on the other side of a wall of force.That isn't a house rule. That is the rules. :D The point of origin of these spells is not the same as the final destination. (Unless, as tarkin noted, the wall of force goes to the ceiling!)
Gnarl 04-29-05, 03:07 PM	Is there any official statement for the can't target rule? I tried to search for it, but didn't find anything. Check out the line of effect entry in the player's handbook. It's not in the wall of force description.
Sentinel of Bharrai 04-29-05, 05:19 PM	Just wondering...if you have two target on either side of Wall of Force, can you cast Flame Strike to affect them both (assuming their both within the area of effect?
surlykke 04-29-05, 05:56 PM	a totally different question concerning Wall of Force. The Description says one can create up to 10ft. Square pr CL now is this a 10 by 10 square or ?? (though i doubt it)
Seeker95 04-29-05, 11:20 PM	now is this a 10 by 10 square or ?? (though i doubt it)from the SRD: Effect: Wall whose area is up to one 10-ft. square/level So yes, it is a 10 by 10 square. However, it is "a flat, vertical plane whose area is up to one 10- foot square per level." This means the wall has "zero" thickness, and for each caster level, this plane (pane!) can be up to 10 feet wide and 10 feet tall. Not 10' sqaures on a grid.