Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hsien 11-24-07, 02:00 PM	After looking over the various Celerity threads, obviously the main focus is during combat when/how it can be used. No problem. The issue I've run across is a non-combat situation when an area magic trap went off. Rogue triggered an area affect magical trap, the rest of the party had been doing the generic rest of the room check. Sorc wanted to use Celerity to then Teleport out of the AoE. The DM ruled, which I agree with, that the trap is essentially a surprise attack or automatically "won initiative" and he would not get the immediate action to use Celerity. We resolved it that way, but it there was much after game discussion so I told them I would check the FAQ and forums for future suggestions. Opinions? Any other Non-Combat issues with Celerity, that may help out in the future?
Emeramber 11-24-07, 05:37 PM	If it had been a pit trap, would Feather Fall have been allowed? If so, then Celerity should be allowed. If not... well, that about halves the use for Feather Fall. Sadly, with the rules as they are now, a trap that opens a pit and dumps a kobold into the room WOULD somehow negate the feather fall. Guess quantum mechanics/observation theory are strong in D&D.
Hsien 11-24-07, 06:56 PM	We were just talking about that, although with mixed results. Yes, FF would be allowed for a Pit Trap, because that is a portion of what it's made for. However that led to a discussion of the different tyoes of traps when it comes to celerity. Here are some generalizations, and our current ideas towards them in regards to Celerity...still debating. 1: Passive Traps: They don't do damage in and of themselves, it's the associated end result that hurts. ~Celerity: Situational, although generally Yes, with the Pit trap being prime example of type. An example of a "No" could be a teleport trap. 2: Attack Roll Traps: It performs an attack roll against the character. ~Celerity: Situational, depends on if the party is aware of the trap. If unaware of the trap, then it falls into a "combat-like" scenario where the party would be basically flat-footed and therefore no immediate action. 3: Area Effect Traps: Mundane or Magical ~ Celerity: Situational, as above since it is also a form of attack. Our result so far...basically, it's DM's discretion and the nature of the trap.
DiceGolem 11-26-07, 11:36 AM	It all comes down to the DM's ruling of whether or not the caster is flat-footed or not. You cannot take an immediate action when flat-footed, so feather fall technically doesn't allow you to avoid the effects of an unexpected pit trap. That's what makes a Ring of Feather Fall (which activates automatically no matter what) nifty. Although, the Feather Fall spell description does say "You can cast this spell with an instant utterance, quickly enough to save yourself if you unexpectedly fall." But, I take that as simple filler for the next sentence: "Casting the spell is a immediate action, allowing you to cast this spell even when it isn’t your turn." By the same fashion, Celerity only works if you're not flat-footed.
Nephlite 11-26-07, 12:22 PM	After looking over the various Celerity threads, obviously the main focus is during combat when/how it can be used. No problem. The issue I've run across is a non-combat situation when an area magic trap went off. Rogue triggered an area affect magical trap, the rest of the party had been doing the generic rest of the room check. Sorc wanted to use Celerity to then Teleport out of the AoE. The DM ruled, which I agree with, that the trap is essentially a surprise attack or automatically "won initiative" and he would not get the immediate action to use Celerity. We resolved it that way, but it there was much after game discussion so I told them I would check the FAQ and forums for future suggestions. Opinions? Any other Non-Combat issues with Celerity, that may help out in the future? A way around this issue is 2 levels in Scouts: never flatfoot again. Unlike others Scouts get uncanny dodge and never caught flatfoot.
Hsien 11-26-07, 03:22 PM	Surprising turn on the Pit Trap portion, when rules for flying were considered. Fall into trap, even allowing Celerity as an immediate action, which simply gives you an extra action. Now throw in the rules for falling/stalled flight. Since you are not capable of flight, assuming anyway, then you would during the process of that extra action fall 150' before any standard action spell finished, I don't have the Rules Comp on me but that issue apparenlty used the Rules for Flying, Stalled/Falling. Perhaps the stalled rule considered it an unexpected situation that the creature cannot recover from without expending an action, and still falling during that recovery timeframe. The application of the stalled/falling rules to the Pitfall trap seems viable. Celerity is unlikely not to do much good except in extreme falls? Still DM's discretion/interpretation but possibly so... Which may bring a new topic do to issues it creates Celerity; Banned or Embraced?