Post/Author/DateTime	Post
HeroOfthePeople 01-31-07, 08:17 PM	I have a really quick question that must be answered really fast. Can you keep casting arcane fusion and celerity to keep gaining turns if you have infinite spell slots?
Animae_Draconum 01-31-07, 09:13 PM	you have to find a way around the daze effect. But the way it usually works is to cast Greater Arcane Fusion to get a Celerity and an Arcane Fusion for another Celerity and any first level spell of your choice that appears on your list. In effect you get a number of standard actions equal to the number of times you repeat the cycle. For the complete rundown on how to take it infinite see Tleilaxu_Ghola's CO Work Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=747279) Anyway, this is old news and the short answer to your question is yes
Vedic Cold 01-31-07, 10:03 PM	Here's a little wrinkle in the whole "infinite standard actions" loop with Celerity and Arcane Fusion. First of all, note that Celerity has an Immediate Action casting time. Now, here's the pertinent part of the description of an Immediate Action: Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your one swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). Since the Immediate Action is a Swift Action when performed during your own turn, it's pertinent to note that only one swift action may be peformed during your turn. Essentially, the Celerity action-loop is impossible, since you cannot cast Celerity more than once between one turn and the next, due to the wording of how Immediate and Swift actions work. The first casting of Celerity uses up your one and only Immediate action until your next regular turn in the intitiative order. Granted, it still allows a 10th level sorcerer to cast up to three spells (other than Arcane Fusion and Celerity) in one turn. But you can only cast Celerity once on any given turn.
Animae_Draconum 01-31-07, 10:15 PM	Here's a little wrinkle in the whole "infinite standard actions" loop with Celerity and Arcane Fusion. First of all, note that Celerity has an Immediate Action casting time. Now, here's the pertinent part of the description of an Immediate Action: Since the Immediate Action is a Swift Action when performed during your own turn, it's pertinent to note that only one swift action may be peformed during your turn. Essentially, the Celerity action-loop is impossible, since you cannot cast Celerity more than once between one turn and the next, due to the wording of how Immediate and Swift actions work. The first casting of Celerity uses up your one and only Immediate action until your next regular turn in the intitiative order. Granted, it still allows a 10th level sorcerer to cast up to three spells (other than Arcane Fusion and Celerity) in one turn. But you can only cast Celerity once on any given turn. You need to read the description of the Arcane Fusion spells You cast 2 spells at the same time neither of which can have a casting time longer than 1 standard action. Celerity satisfies this requirement and you do not need to ever use your immediate action, or swift action unless you use a Celerity to pull youself out of initiative order to go first. A_D
Vedic Cold 01-31-07, 10:20 PM	Having looked more closely at the spell's description, I stand corrected. You win the prize for Most Unnecessary Display of Attitude. :rolleyes:
Animae_Draconum 01-31-07, 10:23 PM	I apologize for my shortness, it's been a long day filled with more instances than I care to admit of people not reading things. Thanks for the reminder to check the animosity towards other before entering forums. Post edited to remove hostile comment.
Vedic Cold 01-31-07, 10:26 PM	Accepted, and easily understood. I suppose my little leap was a function of my DM instinct to curtail the formation of such cheese.
Animae_Draconum 01-31-07, 10:42 PM	Accepted, and easily understood. I suppose my little leap was a function of my DM instinct to curtail the formation of such cheese. My DM also hates this combo and house ruled that when it happens my character goes into a coma for 1 day per completed loop beyond the 3rd in a single day, I then started putting up a mage's magnificent mansion and passing out there as part of my loop. That chararcter soon retired and is now the elven king in that campaign.
Vedic Cold 01-31-07, 10:55 PM	I discussed this combination with my wife after I got Complete Mage recently, and at first I did think of the whole endless loop scenario as a tactic for a sorcerer that I'm building for her very first game as a DM. She looked at me as if my head had just spun around. She told me there was no way I was getting away with it, and if my character pulled it he'd be in for some serious hurting once his next turn came around. Then, for some reason, the caveat of the single swift/immediate action came to mind, giving me (I thought) a rational limit on the effect. After that, I didn't bother to go back to Arcane Fusion's description to check for a loophole - I think mainly because she looked visibly relieved when I told her about the supposed limit.
MarrowMage 01-31-07, 11:02 PM	*gasp* a disagreement handled without further flaming??? i've not seen such in a long time
Vedic Cold 01-31-07, 11:31 PM	Hey, I was wrong. It happens... now and then. ;)
MarrowMage 01-31-07, 11:45 PM	haha, it's good that you are mature enough to admit it instead of fighting it out til the end :D sorry if i stole the thread...just needed to award maturity points
Adrian_Crane 01-31-07, 11:46 PM	This must be remedied! However, I don't have it in me to do so. So hey, can we get some flames on aisle three?
Animae_Draconum 01-31-07, 11:47 PM	Admitedly, I was out of line in my initial behavior, glad that we have proved that once again civility is not dead, just becoming rare.
Animae_Draconum 01-31-07, 11:49 PM	This must be remedied! However, I don't have it in me to do so. So hey, can we get some flames on aisle three? :nonono:
MarrowMage 01-31-07, 11:52 PM	haha, nice, but sadly....i will burn all those who flame (if this makes any sense)
sigma999 01-31-07, 11:55 PM	I agree that was a rare display of restraint and am most pleased. Now if only others would learn by example... oh, and here's your :mage:
MarrowMage 02-01-07, 12:33 AM	*burns sigma999 with hellfire* mwahahahaha hehe jk
sigma999 02-01-07, 01:20 AM	Hey I happen to LIKE hellfire! :devil:
MarrowMage 02-01-07, 09:45 AM	curses, now i must find some other torturous element
ascensionblade 02-01-07, 02:00 PM	curses, now i must find some other torturous element try fruitcake. It's a new type I'm trying to introduce into my campaign. It kind of takes evokers from dumb-school likers to broken gods.;)
HeroOfthePeople 02-01-07, 02:14 PM	Because some idiot used this cheese on me. I think its not legal.
Vedic Cold 02-01-07, 03:48 PM	Well, if you're the DM, that's completely within your purview. Strictly speaking from the Rules As Written, it's workable. As you can see from earlier conversation, though, it's not popular amongst many DMs, and houserules about unforseen consequences are probably common.
TheCobra 02-01-07, 05:30 PM	Probably the easiest way to stop this combo is to ban or edit favor of the martyr. Nothing else gives immunity to daze.
Animae_Draconum 02-01-07, 06:22 PM	Mark of the Dauntless also gives immunity to daze, but it is a feat from Dragonmarked making it Eberron specific. A_D
sigma999 02-01-07, 07:13 PM	I see the problem with Celerity, not any immunity to Daze or application thereafter of Celerity. It's like any problem with Wizards or Sorcerers being too powerful at later levels, it's not the class.. it's the class features. AKA, spells. :rolleyes: