Celestial Brilliance - Broken? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Celestial Brilliance - Broken? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ferzth
03-10-07, 02:37 PM Hi all,

I'm playing the party's cleric in the Heart of Nightfang Spire adventure. I ran across the 4th level spell (B of Exalted Deeds) - Celestial Brilliance. The spell seemed cool and the duration is, at my level of 9, 9 days!

My DM nerfed the spell down to a 1 hour duration, making it, IMHO, useless at that duration and the monsters we were fighting previously had not reformed to engage in combat by the time the spell's duration ended.

I looked in the errata for BoED and could not find any changes to that spell. Do the boards think that spell is broken?

Ferzth
cwslyclgh
03-10-07, 03:13 PM IMHO most pf the things in the Book of Exalted Deeds are broken, and I only allow stuff from that book in my game on a very case by case basis.
Gnarl
03-10-07, 04:01 PM IMHO most pf the things in the Book of Exalted Deeds are broken, and I only allow stuff from that book in my game on a very case by case basis.

Same here. I think the book is full of broken crap. As usual, it always comes down to your play style.
DarkRhystar
03-10-07, 05:07 PM Do the boards think that spell is broken?

It's not that scary normally.

It's a brighter light spell that deals a measly 1d6 damage to Undead per round and 2d6 to Evil Outsiders/Undead harmed by sunlight. Very very specific enemies.

Really nice in a crowd of Undead... but there are much more powerful spells that are a lot better overall than situationally helpful. This spell is also 4th level which means it's competing against spells like Divine Power, Freedom of Movement, and Death Ward.

The fact that it lasts day/level is the only reason it can be broken.

Get a ton of small rocks or pebbles.
Use as many slots as possible to cast Celestial Brilliance on all of them.
Repeat for 3-4 days.
Drop several dozen Celestial Brilliant Pebbles in the midst of some Undead.
Put on sunglasses and watch the fireworks.

Change it to hour/level and drop its spell level to 3 and it's fine.
HawkTheOne-Handed
03-17-07, 06:51 PM My dm's solution to this spell was to limit it to 1 day per casting.
Jolly Josh
08-03-07, 12:56 PM But by RAW these effects would stack... so 50 pebbles in your pocket with Celestial Brilliance on them(which is doable in the duration) would do 100d6 damage a round to undead in the area... thats just sick!
Llathos
08-03-07, 01:10 PM If you were somehow able to remove 100 rocks from your pocket in 1 round, throw 100 rocks in 1 round, then yeah.

I think it'd end up being more like:

Round 1:
Move action-draw rock
Standard action - throw rock, do 1d6 dmg

Round 2:
Move action -draw rock
Standard action - throw rock, do 1d6 dmg + 1d6 dmg from last stone
.
.
.etc

Meanwhile, while you're tossing rocks around like a retard, the other cleric in the party casts Sound Lance or Turns the Undead and destroys or turns them, the mage is fireballing them, and the fighter is cleaving.

Broken? Please. Why don't people actually play test these things?

Broken means campaign damaging. Broken means seriously screwed up so other players at similar level can't have fun. Broken means you HAVE to take it because without it you feel like you're gimping yourself (read: Natural Spell feat for Druids).

Does that sound like this spell?
tarkin
08-03-07, 01:48 PM Preparation:
1. cast Minor Creation: Create bag.
2. Fill bag with rocks.

In combat:
1. throw bag.
2. Cast targetted Dispell Magic on just the bag.

You are basically arguing about side things, not the power of the spell.

It is ALWAYS a bad idea to claim something is balanced because of side issues, such as how long it takes to get them out and active, or the city watch getting involved.
lint trap
08-03-07, 02:18 PM I think an easy fix would be to make the damage not stack. It's still a powerful spell, but nowhere near as lethal as a sack of Celestial Brilliance marbles.
Kursk
08-03-07, 04:55 PM I looked in the errata for BoED and could not find any changes to that spell. Do the boards think that spell is broken?

A/g from BoED is assumed broken until proven otherwise...
redraven
08-03-07, 09:35 PM Any magical effect that lasts more than a day without some kind of limiter (i.e. XP cost, expensive component, etc) is abuseable. These kind of spells are essentially "free" in that you can cast them the day before you adventure around and thus not waste a spell slot for the effect the day you need it.

But, yes, Celestial Brilliance is broken. You don't need fancy tricks to get those Brilliant rocks out of your pocket, just Quick Draw (free action) and drop what's in your hand (free action).
WombleHunter
08-03-07, 09:54 PM In the high-level game I played, we cast it on dozens of buckles that the party wore. And the party Incantatrix Empowered them all.

It was really, really silly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ferzth 03-10-07, 02:37 PM	Hi all, I'm playing the party's cleric in the Heart of Nightfang Spire adventure. I ran across the 4th level spell (B of Exalted Deeds) - Celestial Brilliance. The spell seemed cool and the duration is, at my level of 9, 9 days! My DM nerfed the spell down to a 1 hour duration, making it, IMHO, useless at that duration and the monsters we were fighting previously had not reformed to engage in combat by the time the spell's duration ended. I looked in the errata for BoED and could not find any changes to that spell. Do the boards think that spell is broken? Ferzth
cwslyclgh 03-10-07, 03:13 PM	IMHO most pf the things in the Book of Exalted Deeds are broken, and I only allow stuff from that book in my game on a very case by case basis.
Gnarl 03-10-07, 04:01 PM	IMHO most pf the things in the Book of Exalted Deeds are broken, and I only allow stuff from that book in my game on a very case by case basis. Same here. I think the book is full of broken crap. As usual, it always comes down to your play style.
DarkRhystar 03-10-07, 05:07 PM	Do the boards think that spell is broken? It's not that scary normally. It's a brighter light spell that deals a measly 1d6 damage to Undead per round and 2d6 to Evil Outsiders/Undead harmed by sunlight. Very very specific enemies. Really nice in a crowd of Undead... but there are much more powerful spells that are a lot better overall than situationally helpful. This spell is also 4th level which means it's competing against spells like Divine Power, Freedom of Movement, and Death Ward. The fact that it lasts day/level is the only reason it can be broken. Get a ton of small rocks or pebbles. Use as many slots as possible to cast Celestial Brilliance on all of them. Repeat for 3-4 days. Drop several dozen Celestial Brilliant Pebbles in the midst of some Undead. Put on sunglasses and watch the fireworks. Change it to hour/level and drop its spell level to 3 and it's fine.
HawkTheOne-Handed 03-17-07, 06:51 PM	My dm's solution to this spell was to limit it to 1 day per casting.
Jolly Josh 08-03-07, 12:56 PM	But by RAW these effects would stack... so 50 pebbles in your pocket with Celestial Brilliance on them(which is doable in the duration) would do 100d6 damage a round to undead in the area... thats just sick!
Llathos 08-03-07, 01:10 PM	If you were somehow able to remove 100 rocks from your pocket in 1 round, throw 100 rocks in 1 round, then yeah. I think it'd end up being more like: Round 1: Move action-draw rock Standard action - throw rock, do 1d6 dmg Round 2: Move action -draw rock Standard action - throw rock, do 1d6 dmg + 1d6 dmg from last stone . . .etc Meanwhile, while you're tossing rocks around like a retard, the other cleric in the party casts Sound Lance or Turns the Undead and destroys or turns them, the mage is fireballing them, and the fighter is cleaving. Broken? Please. Why don't people actually play test these things? Broken means campaign damaging. Broken means seriously screwed up so other players at similar level can't have fun. Broken means you HAVE to take it because without it you feel like you're gimping yourself (read: Natural Spell feat for Druids). Does that sound like this spell?
tarkin 08-03-07, 01:48 PM	Preparation: 1. cast Minor Creation: Create bag. 2. Fill bag with rocks. In combat: 1. throw bag. 2. Cast targetted Dispell Magic on just the bag. You are basically arguing about side things, not the power of the spell. It is ALWAYS a bad idea to claim something is balanced because of side issues, such as how long it takes to get them out and active, or the city watch getting involved.
lint trap 08-03-07, 02:18 PM	I think an easy fix would be to make the damage not stack. It's still a powerful spell, but nowhere near as lethal as a sack of Celestial Brilliance marbles.
Kursk 08-03-07, 04:55 PM	I looked in the errata for BoED and could not find any changes to that spell. Do the boards think that spell is broken? A/g from BoED is assumed broken until proven otherwise...
redraven 08-03-07, 09:35 PM	Any magical effect that lasts more than a day without some kind of limiter (i.e. XP cost, expensive component, etc) is abuseable. These kind of spells are essentially "free" in that you can cast them the day before you adventure around and thus not waste a spell slot for the effect the day you need it. But, yes, Celestial Brilliance is broken. You don't need fancy tricks to get those Brilliant rocks out of your pocket, just Quick Draw (free action) and drop what's in your hand (free action).
WombleHunter 08-03-07, 09:54 PM	In the high-level game I played, we cast it on dozens of buckles that the party wore. And the party Incantatrix Empowered them all. It was really, really silly.