Celestial Channeling [Archive] - Wizards Community

Celestial Channeling [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DeadEye19
02-14-05, 04:40 PM I don't know how many of you got the Book of exalted deeds, but I wonder if anyone here knows how channeling celestial works? I realy didn't understood much from the book itself.
The thing is a player of mine wants to use it to cast celestial spells... but I told him to wait with that thing, because I didn't understood it myself.
Elgonn
02-14-05, 05:01 PM In order to cast a Celestial spell from BoED you have to be an outsider with the good subtype. I think a prestige class in there allows it as well.

The Channel Celestial spell is "sanctified" not a celestial spell and requires that you cast it by sacrificing some of yourself. In this case Str and Dex ability damage.
Sentinel of Bharrai
02-14-05, 06:00 PM I don't know how many of you got the Book of exalted deeds, but I wonder if anyone here knows how channeling celestial works? I realy didn't understood much from the book itself.
The thing is a player of mine wants to use it to cast celestial spells... but I told him to wait with that thing, because I didn't understood it myself.

Channeling a celestial is described in detail on pp. 23-4 of BoED. Depending on the characters stats vs. the celestial's stats, some ability scores may increase. You also gain the celestial's skills and skills ranks if they are higher than yours. The biggest benefit I see from channeling a celestial, particulary if you channel greater celestial, is the ability to use (1) the supernatural and spell-like abilities, and (2) cast any spells the celestial has memorized. You do not gain any extraordinary abilities from what I can read.

Casting one of the "Channel Celestial" spells requires both an abstinence and sacrfice component. If you haven noted already, the sacrifice component only happens after the spell's duration has expired, not before or during...which is advantageous to the caster.

Also there are spells that belong to the Celestial Domain, and furthermore, there are spells that have a celestial component (ie, being a good outsider)...but not all Celestial Domain spells have a celestial component.

That having been said, there is the question of whether or not channelling a celestial allows your player (who I assume is not a good outsider type to being with) to cast celestial spells; which I interpet to mean casting a spell that has a celestial component. The answer, of course, it's up to you as the DM. But strictly from what the rules say, the answer if both no and yes.

It's NO because unlike polymorph or shapechange, Channelling a celestial does not change your type and subtype. So your player cannot memorize such spells with a celestical component, nor can they cast such spells from scrolls.

But it's YES if the celestial being channeled has celestial spells already memorized; in that case, I think the rules allow you to access those spells as long as you meet the ability score prerequisitie. In this case, I can only assume the celestial to be channelled was called through a Planar Ally spell or else is there under it's own will. In theory, the spells known by a celestical (such as Planetar or Solar) can vary just as a normal player (ie, the spells listed in the MM are just suggestions, not static spells). So the player could convince the celestial to memorize particular spells with a celestical component, and then later channel that celestial to access those spells and cast them freely.

If you do allow the player to gain the "outside (good)" type/subtype (and thus cast such spells in his/her own right), then the real question is how does your player plan on casting a spell with a celestial component? Are they going to memorize it themselves? The duration of the spells is relatively short (10min/lvl), so if they want to memorize a such a spell, that would have to cast the Channeling Celestial spell just before their appointed time of day when they receive spells and then also cast these spells before the channeling duration expires (although a persistent channel spell would be the way to go).

I hope that helped. Probably not though. Sorry for rambling.
Sentinel of Bharrai
02-14-05, 06:03 PM Just to add to my thought above, I do NOT think allowing the player to cast Celestial Spells in any case is over the top of what the spell already allows. But you may want to take a look at all the spells that will be opened up to your player to get a good assessment.
DeadEye19
02-15-05, 02:54 AM In this case, I can only assume the celestial to be channelled was called through a Planar Ally spell or else is there under it's own will.

Actualy, he cast Valiant Steed to summon a celestial unicorn, so if I will allow him to memorize the celestial spells, he might be able to cast it when channeling through the mount(He did not summoned the unicorn for this purpose- in fact, he offered the mount to return to it's plane once he saw the goal is beyond reach).

I know this ability is powerful, but as you pointed out, it's not unbalancing.
I allowed him the powerful ability of casting sanctified spells as a reward to his great roleplay-he earned the title of exalted by his own right,not as a result of an adventure planned by me ( he made a long and harsh journey to the thired layer of mount Celestia in search of a soul of a paladin who no longer wished to return to life(Graz'zat is the main reason for it)- it was his idea to use the infinite staircase he encountered earlier and try to reach her himself,while I thought he will let her go or he would try to contact her through powerful magical means{and fail to convince her}.He succeded, and the journey itself through realms of good,plus his actions, made him the ONE exalted charecter in the group.)

Now the game is about to go Epic,and by the way it goes, there might be a final confrontation between the party and the demon lord Graz'zat(who by the way has managed to capture the paladin and took her to his realm,beyond saving- {or so they think?}).I think he will need every ability he can get to stand a chance.

I hope that helped. Probably not though. Sorry for rambling.
Actualy, you have been of great help.Thanks for your time!
Sentinel of Bharrai
02-15-05, 04:19 AM Actualy, he cast Valiant Steed to summon a celestial unicorn, so if I will allow him to memorize the celestial spells, he might be able to cast it when channeling through the mount(He did not summoned the unicorn for this purpose- in fact, he offered the mount to return to it's plane once he saw the goal is beyond reach).

I know this ability is powerful, but as you pointed out, it's not unbalancing.
I allowed him the powerful ability of casting sanctified spells as a reward to his great roleplay-he earned the title of exalted by his own right,not as a result of an adventure planned by me ( he made a long and harsh journey to the thired layer of mount Celestia in search of a soul of a paladin who no longer wished to return to life(Graz'zat is the main reason for it)- it was his idea to use the infinite staircase he encountered earlier and try to reach her himself,while I thought he will let her go or he would try to contact her through powerful magical means{and fail to convince her}.He succeded, and the journey itself through realms of good,plus his actions, made him the ONE exalted charecter in the group.)

Now the game is about to go Epic,and by the way it goes, there might be a final confrontation between the party and the demon lord Graz'zat(who by the way has managed to capture the paladin and took her to his realm,beyond saving- {or so they think?}).I think he will need every ability he can get to stand a chance.

Actualy, you have been of great help.Thanks for your time!

It sounds like you have a great game and a great player...all of which probably stem from you being a great DM. As long as you keep game balance in mind and are able to maintain it (which you seem to be doing), everything should be fine. :D It's always nice to reward your players for good role-playing too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DeadEye19 02-14-05, 04:40 PM	I don't know how many of you got the Book of exalted deeds, but I wonder if anyone here knows how channeling celestial works? I realy didn't understood much from the book itself. The thing is a player of mine wants to use it to cast celestial spells... but I told him to wait with that thing, because I didn't understood it myself.
Elgonn 02-14-05, 05:01 PM	In order to cast a Celestial spell from BoED you have to be an outsider with the good subtype. I think a prestige class in there allows it as well. The Channel Celestial spell is "sanctified" not a celestial spell and requires that you cast it by sacrificing some of yourself. In this case Str and Dex ability damage.
Sentinel of Bharrai 02-14-05, 06:00 PM	I don't know how many of you got the Book of exalted deeds, but I wonder if anyone here knows how channeling celestial works? I realy didn't understood much from the book itself. The thing is a player of mine wants to use it to cast celestial spells... but I told him to wait with that thing, because I didn't understood it myself. Channeling a celestial is described in detail on pp. 23-4 of BoED. Depending on the characters stats vs. the celestial's stats, some ability scores may increase. You also gain the celestial's skills and skills ranks if they are higher than yours. The biggest benefit I see from channeling a celestial, particulary if you channel greater celestial, is the ability to use (1) the supernatural and spell-like abilities, and (2) cast any spells the celestial has memorized. You do not gain any extraordinary abilities from what I can read. Casting one of the "Channel Celestial" spells requires both an abstinence and sacrfice component. If you haven noted already, the sacrifice component only happens after the spell's duration has expired, not before or during...which is advantageous to the caster. Also there are spells that belong to the Celestial Domain, and furthermore, there are spells that have a celestial component (ie, being a good outsider)...but not all Celestial Domain spells have a celestial component. That having been said, there is the question of whether or not channelling a celestial allows your player (who I assume is not a good outsider type to being with) to cast celestial spells; which I interpet to mean casting a spell that has a celestial component. The answer, of course, it's up to you as the DM. But strictly from what the rules say, the answer if both no and yes. It's NO because unlike polymorph or shapechange, Channelling a celestial does not change your type and subtype. So your player cannot memorize such spells with a celestical component, nor can they cast such spells from scrolls. But it's YES if the celestial being channeled has celestial spells already memorized; in that case, I think the rules allow you to access those spells as long as you meet the ability score prerequisitie. In this case, I can only assume the celestial to be channelled was called through a Planar Ally spell or else is there under it's own will. In theory, the spells known by a celestical (such as Planetar or Solar) can vary just as a normal player (ie, the spells listed in the MM are just suggestions, not static spells). So the player could convince the celestial to memorize particular spells with a celestical component, and then later channel that celestial to access those spells and cast them freely. If you do allow the player to gain the "outside (good)" type/subtype (and thus cast such spells in his/her own right), then the real question is how does your player plan on casting a spell with a celestial component? Are they going to memorize it themselves? The duration of the spells is relatively short (10min/lvl), so if they want to memorize a such a spell, that would have to cast the Channeling Celestial spell just before their appointed time of day when they receive spells and then also cast these spells before the channeling duration expires (although a persistent channel spell would be the way to go). I hope that helped. Probably not though. Sorry for rambling.
Sentinel of Bharrai 02-14-05, 06:03 PM	Just to add to my thought above, I do NOT think allowing the player to cast Celestial Spells in any case is over the top of what the spell already allows. But you may want to take a look at all the spells that will be opened up to your player to get a good assessment.
DeadEye19 02-15-05, 02:54 AM	In this case, I can only assume the celestial to be channelled was called through a Planar Ally spell or else is there under it's own will. Actualy, he cast Valiant Steed to summon a celestial unicorn, so if I will allow him to memorize the celestial spells, he might be able to cast it when channeling through the mount(He did not summoned the unicorn for this purpose- in fact, he offered the mount to return to it's plane once he saw the goal is beyond reach). I know this ability is powerful, but as you pointed out, it's not unbalancing. I allowed him the powerful ability of casting sanctified spells as a reward to his great roleplay-he earned the title of exalted by his own right,not as a result of an adventure planned by me ( he made a long and harsh journey to the thired layer of mount Celestia in search of a soul of a paladin who no longer wished to return to life(Graz'zat is the main reason for it)- it was his idea to use the infinite staircase he encountered earlier and try to reach her himself,while I thought he will let her go or he would try to contact her through powerful magical means{and fail to convince her}.He succeded, and the journey itself through realms of good,plus his actions, made him the ONE exalted charecter in the group.) Now the game is about to go Epic,and by the way it goes, there might be a final confrontation between the party and the demon lord Graz'zat(who by the way has managed to capture the paladin and took her to his realm,beyond saving- {or so they think?}).I think he will need every ability he can get to stand a chance. I hope that helped. Probably not though. Sorry for rambling. Actualy, you have been of great help.Thanks for your time!
Sentinel of Bharrai 02-15-05, 04:19 AM	Actualy, he cast Valiant Steed to summon a celestial unicorn, so if I will allow him to memorize the celestial spells, he might be able to cast it when channeling through the mount(He did not summoned the unicorn for this purpose- in fact, he offered the mount to return to it's plane once he saw the goal is beyond reach). I know this ability is powerful, but as you pointed out, it's not unbalancing. I allowed him the powerful ability of casting sanctified spells as a reward to his great roleplay-he earned the title of exalted by his own right,not as a result of an adventure planned by me ( he made a long and harsh journey to the thired layer of mount Celestia in search of a soul of a paladin who no longer wished to return to life(Graz'zat is the main reason for it)- it was his idea to use the infinite staircase he encountered earlier and try to reach her himself,while I thought he will let her go or he would try to contact her through powerful magical means{and fail to convince her}.He succeded, and the journey itself through realms of good,plus his actions, made him the ONE exalted charecter in the group.) Now the game is about to go Epic,and by the way it goes, there might be a final confrontation between the party and the demon lord Graz'zat(who by the way has managed to capture the paladin and took her to his realm,beyond saving- {or so they think?}).I think he will need every ability he can get to stand a chance. Actualy, you have been of great help.Thanks for your time! It sounds like you have a great game and a great player...all of which probably stem from you being a great DM. As long as you keep game balance in mind and are able to maintain it (which you seem to be doing), everything should be fine. :D It's always nice to reward your players for good role-playing too.