CHA-boosting items: restrictions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

CHA-boosting items: restrictions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nicholas the Paladin
10-02-05, 02:58 PM Hi guys,

I'm thinking about boosting my CHA-score with a magical item. One of my fellow players brought up the questions, if there's a restriction on the 'kind' of items that can be used for this.

'Should' it be a cloak, ring or necklace (etc.)..... or can I (theoretically speaking) use any item my imaginations lets me?

Thanks.
Seeker95
10-02-05, 04:34 PM You can use any kind of item your imagination can envision, within the constraints inherent in your campaign.

However, the type of item may dictate a higher or lower price.
Unslotted = 2x creation and market prices.
Slotted Without Affinity = 1.5x creation and market prices.

For Charisma (a mental stat) you have affinity in headbands and helmets.
Rings have no affinity requirement.

If you make a slotted item other than a ring, headband or helmet, (or item that occupies the headband / helmet slot), then you will pay 50% more than you would for a ring, headband or helmet.

If you make an unslotted item, then you will pay 50% more than you would for a ring, headband or helmet.

See DMG p. 288 for body slot affinities.
Nidair
10-02-05, 04:41 PM Were cloaks not the usual slot for charisma-boosting items?
Seeker95
10-02-05, 04:47 PM Were cloaks not the usual slot for charisma-boosting items?Perhaps, but the affinities for cloaks are listed as transformation (cloak of the manta) and protection (cloak of protection). Charisma boost fits neither of these.

Of course, since the cloak of charisma already exists with a set price, there is no need to ask if you can make one.
green_yawgmoth
10-02-05, 06:04 PM I think that affinity is the dumbest and most worthless thing to come out of 3.5. What's the point of making a headband of con more expensive than bracers of con? It's like saying a red lamp is more expensive than a black lamp because lamps have an "affinity" for being black.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Archtyrant Terevoth
10-02-05, 06:07 PM Since the affinities are so ambiguous, I always use the existing items as a template for affinities. Cloak is the default charisma item, so I assign the non-affinity penalty to any non-cloak used to boost charisma.
Seeker95
10-02-05, 06:39 PM I think that affinity is the dumbest and most worthless thing to come out of 3.5. What's the point of making a headband of con more expensive than bracers of con?To decrease the level of cheese that "character item creation" intriduced into the game. Affinity requires that there be at least a minimum of thought go into the munchkinization of PCs via magic items.

By making a headband of Con more expensive than bracers of Con, the fighter build must decide whether s/he wants bracers of Con or bracers of Attack-improvement. Allowing a headband of Con to cost the same removes any need for decision-making.
slade_caizer
10-02-05, 07:54 PM To decrease the level of cheese that "character item creation" intriduced into the game. Affinity requires that there be at least a minimum of thought go into the munchkinization of PCs via magic items.

By making a headband of Con more expensive than bracers of Con, the fighter build must decide whether s/he wants bracers of Con or bracers of Attack-improvement. Allowing a headband of Con to cost the same removes any need for decision-making.I think that sums it up nicely. I know it makes me sick to see the toe-ring of intellect and similar items.

Remember: just say no to cheese.
The Simbul
10-02-05, 11:36 PM IMO Charisma enhancing items should be considered affinity-appropriate in the following examples;

Headband, Helmet (affinity: mental improvement, CHA is a mental stat)
Hat (affinity: interaction, ex. a Crown)
Phylactery (affinity: morale, morale->confidence, confidence-> charisma)
Cloak (obviously)
Belt (sashes or items of fashionable or a non-mundane use only)
Bracelets (affinity: allies, allies are attributed to Charisma)

I have never seen a Ring that provides an enhancement bonus to an ability score, so I dont see much of a precedence for them.
Ryll
10-03-05, 12:41 AM You can get rid of the affinity model altogether(that model only serves to make the game seem more artificial and unreal since it is an arbitrary set of rules that make no sense other than "we will pretend this makes some sort of balance out of the game").

Sure there is the smallest chance of cheeset that comes from using one's brain, but chances are you will still not reach the level of cheese (on average) that you get from some published items, like the Belt of Magnificence from the miniatures handbook.

When it comes right down to it, whether something is "cheese" or not, and the level of that cheesiness, is all subjective and rarely (as in we have not seen it used on these boards yet) used in a consistent manner that most, if not all, could agree upon.
IceFractal
10-03-05, 02:53 AM The primary source of cheese in the magic item creation system is when people start taking the formulas as absolutes, leading to things like the Ring of True Striking, 2000 gp. Compared to that, affinities are truly minor.

If you keep to the standard that:
1) The DM should approve new items.
2) Items should make some amount of sense.
3) The pricing formulas are merely a guideline, not a rule.

Then I don't think things like affinities are needed.

Incidentally, I've had some fun with putting items in unusual slots. For instance, Gloves of Darkvision. Ridiculous, you say? Well:

These fingerless gloves are made from the hide of some scaly creature, and have an irridescent sheen in dim light, but their most notable feature is the large closed eye on the back of each hand. The eye cannot be opened by force, short of destroying the gloves. However, if the gloves are worn and the wearer covers their eyes with their palms, the eyes on the back of the gloves will open, and the wearer will be able to see out of them. The eyes are yellow with vertically slitted pupils, and possess normal sight and 60' darkvision. Attempting to look through both your normal eyes and the glove eyes at once (using a Ring of X-Ray Vision, for instance) is disorienting and makes the wearer nauseated.
Seeker95
10-03-05, 02:27 PM For those folks objecting to affinities think of it this way:
Non-affinity does not increase the cost.
Affinity decreases the cost.

Most (wondrous) items are SL x CL x 2000 x 2
(Most wondrous items are unslotted.)

Slotted wondrous items are only SL x CL x 2000 x 1.5
Slotted wondrous items receive a 25% discount!

Slotted wondrous items with affinity are SL x CL x 1
Affinity slotted items receive a 50% discount!

Want to get rid of affinities? Get rid of the discount affinity brings.

:P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nicholas the Paladin 10-02-05, 02:58 PM	Hi guys, I'm thinking about boosting my CHA-score with a magical item. One of my fellow players brought up the questions, if there's a restriction on the 'kind' of items that can be used for this. 'Should' it be a cloak, ring or necklace (etc.)..... or can I (theoretically speaking) use any item my imaginations lets me? Thanks.
Seeker95 10-02-05, 04:34 PM	You can use any kind of item your imagination can envision, within the constraints inherent in your campaign. However, the type of item may dictate a higher or lower price. Unslotted = 2x creation and market prices. Slotted Without Affinity = 1.5x creation and market prices. For Charisma (a mental stat) you have affinity in headbands and helmets. Rings have no affinity requirement. If you make a slotted item other than a ring, headband or helmet, (or item that occupies the headband / helmet slot), then you will pay 50% more than you would for a ring, headband or helmet. If you make an unslotted item, then you will pay 50% more than you would for a ring, headband or helmet. See DMG p. 288 for body slot affinities.
Nidair 10-02-05, 04:41 PM	Were cloaks not the usual slot for charisma-boosting items?
Seeker95 10-02-05, 04:47 PM	Were cloaks not the usual slot for charisma-boosting items?Perhaps, but the affinities for cloaks are listed as transformation (cloak of the manta) and protection (cloak of protection). Charisma boost fits neither of these. Of course, since the cloak of charisma already exists with a set price, there is no need to ask if you can make one.
green_yawgmoth 10-02-05, 06:04 PM	I think that affinity is the dumbest and most worthless thing to come out of 3.5. What's the point of making a headband of con more expensive than bracers of con? It's like saying a red lamp is more expensive than a black lamp because lamps have an "affinity" for being black. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Archtyrant Terevoth 10-02-05, 06:07 PM	Since the affinities are so ambiguous, I always use the existing items as a template for affinities. Cloak is the default charisma item, so I assign the non-affinity penalty to any non-cloak used to boost charisma.
Seeker95 10-02-05, 06:39 PM	I think that affinity is the dumbest and most worthless thing to come out of 3.5. What's the point of making a headband of con more expensive than bracers of con?To decrease the level of cheese that "character item creation" intriduced into the game. Affinity requires that there be at least a minimum of thought go into the munchkinization of PCs via magic items. By making a headband of Con more expensive than bracers of Con, the fighter build must decide whether s/he wants bracers of Con or bracers of Attack-improvement. Allowing a headband of Con to cost the same removes any need for decision-making.
slade_caizer 10-02-05, 07:54 PM	To decrease the level of cheese that "character item creation" intriduced into the game. Affinity requires that there be at least a minimum of thought go into the munchkinization of PCs via magic items. By making a headband of Con more expensive than bracers of Con, the fighter build must decide whether s/he wants bracers of Con or bracers of Attack-improvement. Allowing a headband of Con to cost the same removes any need for decision-making.I think that sums it up nicely. I know it makes me sick to see the toe-ring of intellect and similar items. Remember: just say no to cheese.
The Simbul 10-02-05, 11:36 PM	IMO Charisma enhancing items should be considered affinity-appropriate in the following examples; Headband, Helmet (affinity: mental improvement, CHA is a mental stat) Hat (affinity: interaction, ex. a Crown) Phylactery (affinity: morale, morale->confidence, confidence-> charisma) Cloak (obviously) Belt (sashes or items of fashionable or a non-mundane use only) Bracelets (affinity: allies, allies are attributed to Charisma) I have never seen a Ring that provides an enhancement bonus to an ability score, so I dont see much of a precedence for them.
Ryll 10-03-05, 12:41 AM	You can get rid of the affinity model altogether(that model only serves to make the game seem more artificial and unreal since it is an arbitrary set of rules that make no sense other than "we will pretend this makes some sort of balance out of the game"). Sure there is the smallest chance of cheeset that comes from using one's brain, but chances are you will still not reach the level of cheese (on average) that you get from some published items, like the Belt of Magnificence from the miniatures handbook. When it comes right down to it, whether something is "cheese" or not, and the level of that cheesiness, is all subjective and rarely (as in we have not seen it used on these boards yet) used in a consistent manner that most, if not all, could agree upon.
IceFractal 10-03-05, 02:53 AM	The primary source of cheese in the magic item creation system is when people start taking the formulas as absolutes, leading to things like the Ring of True Striking, 2000 gp. Compared to that, affinities are truly minor. If you keep to the standard that: 1) The DM should approve new items. 2) Items should make some amount of sense. 3) The pricing formulas are merely a guideline, not a rule. Then I don't think things like affinities are needed. Incidentally, I've had some fun with putting items in unusual slots. For instance, Gloves of Darkvision. Ridiculous, you say? Well: These fingerless gloves are made from the hide of some scaly creature, and have an irridescent sheen in dim light, but their most notable feature is the large closed eye on the back of each hand. The eye cannot be opened by force, short of destroying the gloves. However, if the gloves are worn and the wearer covers their eyes with their palms, the eyes on the back of the gloves will open, and the wearer will be able to see out of them. The eyes are yellow with vertically slitted pupils, and possess normal sight and 60' darkvision. Attempting to look through both your normal eyes and the glove eyes at once (using a Ring of X-Ray Vision, for instance) is disorienting and makes the wearer nauseated.
Seeker95 10-03-05, 02:27 PM	For those folks objecting to affinities think of it this way: Non-affinity does not increase the cost. Affinity decreases the cost. Most (wondrous) items are SL x CL x 2000 x 2 (Most wondrous items are unslotted.) Slotted wondrous items are only SL x CL x 2000 x 1.5 Slotted wondrous items receive a 25% discount! Slotted wondrous items with affinity are SL x CL x 1 Affinity slotted items receive a 50% discount! Want to get rid of affinities? Get rid of the discount affinity brings. :P