Chain Lightning and Evasion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chain Lightning and Evasion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
justinthebig
03-16-07, 08:55 PM I apologize if this has been addressed somewhere else in the forums.

I recently ruled in a game I DM, that a rogue with evasion who was the primary target of a chain lightning spell, did not negate the effects for the secondary targets. The rogues argument was that becuase the initial arc did not strike it's target that it could not arc out to strike the other PCs. I had ruled against this becuase I had felt if that were the case it would have specifically said in the spell discription that the secondary arcs fail to initiate if the primary arc misses it's intended target.

What are other peoples opinion on this matter?

Justin the Big
Bopple
03-16-07, 09:13 PM Evasion does not mean you completely avoide the spell.
There are bunch of spells with multiple effects.
It does not let you evade the secondary nondamaging effects like fear, weakening, blinding or ect.
Now back to Chain Lightning, apply Fell Drain to it. Now it has level-drain effects. Just because you have Evasion, you can now completely ignore level-drain? No, not at all.
Ogre4Hire
03-16-07, 09:15 PM I'd agree with you in this case. If the target had spell resistance or Spell Immunity, like a Drow or a golem, then I'd say that the spell would flat out fail and not effect any secondary targets either. In the rogue's case, just say that while he jumped out of the way, the bolt still struck the floor beneath him and chained out from there.
The Simbul
03-17-07, 12:09 AM Evasion lets you avoid being damaged by the spell, it doesn't prevent you from being targeted by that spell in the first place, specifically since you must be targeted by chain lightning before you even get a saving throw. The arcing ability of chain lightning only requires there to be a primary target and any optional secondary targets, and there are both in this instance, the primary target just didn't take damage from the spell, that doesn't mean he wasn't targeted by it.If the target had spell resistance or Spell Immunity, like a Drow or a golem, then I'd say that the spell would flat out fail and not effect any secondary targets either.
Why would you say that? Spell Immunity and Spell Resistance do not negate the spell, they simply prevent the creature with those qualities from being harmed by it. If a Drow successfully resists a fireball spell, it doesn't give amnesty to everyone else in the radius. If Monk resists mass hold monster it doesn't give the other targets of that spell any equivalent protection.
Ogre4Hire
03-17-07, 11:55 AM Yes, but Chain Lightning's not an Area affect spell. It's simply my interpretation that if the primary target can actually negate the spell (as opposed to simply negating the damage), then Chain Lightning won't spread to any secondary targets.
Someone
03-17-07, 12:25 PM No, the primary target is still struck, even if they take no damage. They might have electricity immunity, or protection from energy (electric), or in this case evasion and a good Reflex save. But that doesn't stop the caster from choosing a number of secondary targets, all of whom are within 30 ft. of the primary.
SALDAR
03-17-07, 12:38 PM Yes, but Chain Lightning's not an Area affect spell. It's simply my interpretation that if the primary target can actually negate the spell (as opposed to simply negating the damage), then Chain Lightning won't spread to any secondary targets.

It's not that the primary target is negating the spell. The spell is still taking effect and doing damage but the primary target has a special ability that allows it to avoid the effects and/or damage of the spell.
tarkin
03-17-07, 03:50 PM I have to agree.

Evasion in NO way 'negates' the spell.

You take no damage does not mean the spell is negated.

For example, a fireball could be evaded by you, but could still start a forest fire.
CantripN
03-17-07, 04:42 PM I also agree, but I think that SR would block the spell from moving on.
Empiro
03-17-07, 06:56 PM The secondary arcs of the Chain Lightning should not be affected by either SR nor evasion.

Here is the relevent section for targeted spells and SR:

Spell resistance applies if the spell is targeted at the creature. Some individually targeted spells can be directed at several creatures simultaneously. In such cases, a creature’s spell resistance applies only to the portion of the spell actually targeted at that creature. If several different resistant creatures are subjected to such a spell, each checks its spell resistance separately.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
justinthebig 03-16-07, 08:55 PM	I apologize if this has been addressed somewhere else in the forums. I recently ruled in a game I DM, that a rogue with evasion who was the primary target of a chain lightning spell, did not negate the effects for the secondary targets. The rogues argument was that becuase the initial arc did not strike it's target that it could not arc out to strike the other PCs. I had ruled against this becuase I had felt if that were the case it would have specifically said in the spell discription that the secondary arcs fail to initiate if the primary arc misses it's intended target. What are other peoples opinion on this matter? Justin the Big
Bopple 03-16-07, 09:13 PM	Evasion does not mean you completely avoide the spell. There are bunch of spells with multiple effects. It does not let you evade the secondary nondamaging effects like fear, weakening, blinding or ect. Now back to Chain Lightning, apply Fell Drain to it. Now it has level-drain effects. Just because you have Evasion, you can now completely ignore level-drain? No, not at all.
Ogre4Hire 03-16-07, 09:15 PM	I'd agree with you in this case. If the target had spell resistance or Spell Immunity, like a Drow or a golem, then I'd say that the spell would flat out fail and not effect any secondary targets either. In the rogue's case, just say that while he jumped out of the way, the bolt still struck the floor beneath him and chained out from there.
The Simbul 03-17-07, 12:09 AM	Evasion lets you avoid being damaged by the spell, it doesn't prevent you from being targeted by that spell in the first place, specifically since you must be targeted by chain lightning before you even get a saving throw. The arcing ability of chain lightning only requires there to be a primary target and any optional secondary targets, and there are both in this instance, the primary target just didn't take damage from the spell, that doesn't mean he wasn't targeted by it.If the target had spell resistance or Spell Immunity, like a Drow or a golem, then I'd say that the spell would flat out fail and not effect any secondary targets either. Why would you say that? Spell Immunity and Spell Resistance do not negate the spell, they simply prevent the creature with those qualities from being harmed by it. If a Drow successfully resists a fireball spell, it doesn't give amnesty to everyone else in the radius. If Monk resists mass hold monster it doesn't give the other targets of that spell any equivalent protection.
Ogre4Hire 03-17-07, 11:55 AM	Yes, but Chain Lightning's not an Area affect spell. It's simply my interpretation that if the primary target can actually negate the spell (as opposed to simply negating the damage), then Chain Lightning won't spread to any secondary targets.
Someone 03-17-07, 12:25 PM	No, the primary target is still struck, even if they take no damage. They might have electricity immunity, or protection from energy (electric), or in this case evasion and a good Reflex save. But that doesn't stop the caster from choosing a number of secondary targets, all of whom are within 30 ft. of the primary.
SALDAR 03-17-07, 12:38 PM	Yes, but Chain Lightning's not an Area affect spell. It's simply my interpretation that if the primary target can actually negate the spell (as opposed to simply negating the damage), then Chain Lightning won't spread to any secondary targets. It's not that the primary target is negating the spell. The spell is still taking effect and doing damage but the primary target has a special ability that allows it to avoid the effects and/or damage of the spell.
tarkin 03-17-07, 03:50 PM	I have to agree. Evasion in NO way 'negates' the spell. You take no damage does not mean the spell is negated. For example, a fireball could be evaded by you, but could still start a forest fire.
CantripN 03-17-07, 04:42 PM	I also agree, but I think that SR would block the spell from moving on.
Empiro 03-17-07, 06:56 PM	The secondary arcs of the Chain Lightning should not be affected by either SR nor evasion. Here is the relevent section for targeted spells and SR: Spell resistance applies if the spell is targeted at the creature. Some individually targeted spells can be directed at several creatures simultaneously. In such cases, a creature’s spell resistance applies only to the portion of the spell actually targeted at that creature. If several different resistant creatures are subjected to such a spell, each checks its spell resistance separately.