Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CantripN 12-16-06, 02:30 AM	Well, I just got Chain Spell and am looking for spells that work well with it. So far I've found that Burning Blood (SpC) works VERY well, since it does damage, thus negating the -4 to the DC. Ray of Enfeeblement is also nice. I'm looking for any spell, but low level is obviously better. Buffs would be nice, but they'd have to have a range of more than touch. EDIT: Wizard/Sorcerer only, though.
CantripN 12-17-06, 04:03 AM	Is the feat so worthless that no spells make it work or does no one want to answer me? C'mon, people, help!
smrtgmp 12-17-06, 05:49 AM	You can only chain targeted spells. Ray spells are effect spells, so they cannot be chained. As such, no RoE. On the other hand, chain works very well with the power words. They dont allow a save and they dont deal damage (for the most part), so they bypass both of the restrictions of chain spell. Check out the selection in Races of the Dragon. A lot of people forget that grease can be targeted on a weapon. A chain grease is a great way to stop a fight before it begins (or just disarm a group of enemies and giggle as they try to pick them back up).
CantripN 12-17-06, 05:55 AM	You can only chain targeted spells. Ray spells are effect spells, so they cannot be chained. As such, no RoE. On the other hand, chain works very well with the power words. They dont allow a save and they dont deal damage (for the most part), so they bypass both of the restrictions of chain spell. Check out the selection in Races of the Dragon. A lot of people forget that grease can be targeted on a weapon. A chain grease is a great way to stop a fight before it begins (or just disarm a group of enemies and giggle as they try to pick them back up). Too bad about the Rays. Are you sure? Powerwords are nice, too, though a bit high level... I'll check out RotD again. And Grease is awesome! I'd never noticed that part before! "Reapeated" Chain Disarm + Help in Grapple, all around!
smrtgmp 12-17-06, 06:01 AM	positive. RotD has a power word for every level, and a prestige class that synergyses well with them (assuming you're a spontaneous caster). I'm currently playng a kobold sorcerer 5/mindbender 1/dracolexi 6 and he kicks a whole lot of ass. I've picked up a few power words at lower level (a class feature) and have practical metamagic for chain spell. I'm looking forward to the day when I can pop off a chained power word petrify. :D
redraven 12-17-06, 06:04 AM	I do not think Burning Blood is going to be as effective as you think. Although it is up to your DM's interpretation, I personally would rule the 1d8 fire and 1d8 acid damage would be halved (plus Reflex for half again) and the Fort partial DC would be at -4. I suppose it could be argued either/or instead of both. Further, ray spells do not have Target entries, so I would not allow you to use Ray of Enfeeblement. In any case, one spell that does work well is something simple like Dispel Magic. Being able to cast a targeted Dispel Magic against eleven or more different targets for a 6th level spell is sexy, especially since you can target spells already in effect (Fog Cloud, etc) and/or all the magic items the target is carrying (target loses buffs plus sword/armor/other equipment becomes nonmagical for 1d4 rounds). Best of all, there are no penalties for your dispel check since it neither allows a save nor deals damage. If your DM does not allow Disjunction in your games, I suggest replacing it with a Chained Spell Greater Dispel Magic equivalent, which essentially should have the same effect (minus the auto-dispel, of course). Here are some other suggestions, with the equivalent spell level in parenthesis: Feeblemind (8th): the +4 and -4 DC cancel out against mages, but you are likely to hit someone. Bands of Steel (6th): Auto-entangle, possible immobilization. Backbiter (4th): Amusing against a bunch of fighters. Open/Close (3rd): Mainly for role-playing effect, although helpful in combats that have a lot of doors. Battering Ram (5th): Damage is essentially negated (half of 1d6, maybe half again), but Bull Rushes are fun near cliffs. Blindness/Deafness (5th): Permanently blinding entire enemy party. Blood Wind (4th): No-penalty swift action to grant entire party an extra 20 feet to their attacks. Cool. Buzzing Bee (4th): No-penalty, great against a bunch of mages, sneaky characters. I was essentially using the WotC Spell Index (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/spells&tablesort=7), sorted for Target. There are way too many to go through though, so you are on your own from now on. One last thing: there are some nice options via the Power Words if you have access to Races of the Dragon. Chained Power Word Pain and Power Word Fatigue are decent 4th level spells as long as foes have less than 100 HP, as they have no save and deal no damage.
CantripN 12-17-06, 07:53 AM	I do not think Burning Blood is going to be as effective as you think. Although it is up to your DM's interpretation, I personally would rule the 1d8 fire and 1d8 acid damage would be halved (plus Reflex for half again) and the Fort partial DC would be at -4. I suppose it could be argued either/or instead of both. Further, ray spells do not have Target entries, so I would not allow you to use Ray of Enfeeblement. In any case, one spell that does work well is something simple like Dispel Magic. Being able to cast a targeted Dispel Magic against eleven or more different targets for a 6th level spell is sexy, especially since you can target spells already in effect (Fog Cloud, etc) and/or all the magic items the target is carrying (target loses buffs plus sword/armor/other equipment becomes nonmagical for 1d4 rounds). Best of all, there are no penalties for your dispel check since it neither allows a save nor deals damage. If your DM does not allow Disjunction in your games, I suggest replacing it with a Chained Spell Greater Dispel Magic equivalent, which essentially should have the same effect (minus the auto-dispel, of course). Okay, thanks, man! The Dispel Magic especially! I'd missed that. What are your grounds for lowering the DC for Burning Blood, though? It states: "For spells that don't deal damage, the save DCs against arcing effects are reduced by 4." . Burning Blood certainly deals damage. Hell, even a Finger of Death with Black Lore of Moil could be said to be able to be chained with no DC reduction (though that's sorta like bonus dice, so that's arguable)...
redraven 12-17-06, 04:51 PM	What are your grounds for lowering the DC for Burning Blood, though? It states: "For spells that don't deal damage, the save DCs against arcing effects are reduced by 4." . Burning Blood certainly deals damage. Hell, even a Finger of Death with Black Lore of Moil could be said to be able to be chained with no DC reduction (though that's sorta like bonus dice, so that's arguable)... My grounds are the difference between how much the damage is important to the spell versus the other effect. Taking half or 1/4th (on a successful save) of 2d8 damage is weak. Meanwhile, a failed Fort save means they only get to take one move action a round. Indeed, this spell works at limiting actions even if it dealt no damage whatsoever. Thus, since the Fort save seems to be the primary attack method, so to speak, I would reduce the save rather than the damage. Same deal with Finger of Death - obviously instant death is worse than 3d6 damage, so it seems like Chain Spell should reduce the save rather than what happens if you make the save.
Vassiliod 12-17-06, 08:24 PM	Here is a good thread on spells eligibles to the Chain spell feat : http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=189071