Chained Magic Jar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chained Magic Jar [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sajek
07-22-07, 03:44 PM The Chain Spell feat (Comp.Arc) reads "Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained." The Magic Jar spell is a single target spell with a range greater than touch. So what would happen if you possesed multiple people at once?

I would just flat out say you can't chain Magic Jar, what would you say?
Sarlax
07-22-07, 04:36 PM I'd let it work because it's such a fun idea. The caster would possess multiple bodies, with all of the original souls being trapped within the same gem.

I would restrict the caster to one action per round, however. He still possesses a single soul and mind, meaning he can only apply his attentions to one body. Every other body would be effectively dazed.

If questioned for the rules basis for this view, I'd refer to this: "Attempting to possess a body is a full-round action." The soul seems to be what permits actions, not the body, short of a special effect (like Choker quickness).
Horseshoe_Hermit
07-22-07, 07:52 PM If there is a target, it's you, or the jar. The fact that the description says "One creature" has to be interpreted as a mistake; there is only one "one creature" concerned at the time of casting - you.

"I'd let it work because it's such a fun idea. The caster would possess multiple bodies, with all of the original souls being trapped within the same gem."

I'd rule that it *can't* work because of the very ridiculousness you have described. How can something be a fun idea if it makes no sense? That's like saying you enjoy three-legged horses that have four legs.

The receptacle can't contain more than one soul.
No soul can inhabit more than one body.
You can't force a soul into the receptacle except by possessing the body.

!!!! It's obvious that chaining the spell in this way can't work.
Sajek
07-22-07, 09:29 PM If there is a target, it's you, or the jar. The fact that the description says "One creature" has to be interpreted as a mistake; there is only one "one creature" concerned at the time of casting - you.
How could "one creature" mean yourself?

I'd rule that it *can't* work because of the very ridiculousness you have described. How can something be a fun idea if it makes no sense?
It's a fun idea because it is not covered by the rules and you get to make rules for yourself. I'm coming to agree with Sarlax on how it would work.

That's like saying you enjoy three-legged horses that have four legs.
Huh?

The receptacle can't contain more than one soul.
No soul can inhabit more than one body.
...where does it say this?
dknight100
07-22-07, 11:14 PM So far it seems like it would work - and the restriction on how many actions is an interesting twist on a player only being able to take his free actions, 1 move action and 1 standard action, 2 move actions, or a full round action. This reading makes sense, i mean, the rules for actions per round don't state "a character's body", so possessing multiple bodies doesn't look like it would grant multiple actions.

Its a powerful ability, to be sure, but thats kinda what metamagic is for. Its certainly no world ending power though - if the possessing players actual body gets killed, he's still stuffed, and while he could possess multiple creatures with this, he would have to spread his actions around.

Also, i don't follow the whole:
I'd rule that it *can't* work because of the very ridiculousness you have described. How can something be a fun idea if it makes no sense? That's like saying you enjoy three-legged horses that have four legs.
For something to not be fun if it made no sense, the reason it would be fun would have to not make sense (not to mention that the capability to possess multiple people doesn't sound ridiculous). Saying you enjoy 3 legged horses with 4 legs is simply nonsensical, while saying that the idea of being able to possess multiple people with a metamagic'ed majic jar is a fun idea makes perfect sense.
Osedox
07-23-07, 12:00 AM The cool thing about chain spell is that it says a single target can only be affected one time, so I take that to mean that if they succeed on their initial save, then they haven't been affected by the spell, so have them keep making saves until they get unlucky. Then you can use whatever other targets you have remaining to effect other creatures.

This combo is bad, but Reach Spell+Chain Spell+Vampiric Touch is worst.
Sarlax
07-23-07, 12:34 AM Its a powerful ability, to be sure, but thats kinda what metamagic is for.
Yep. After the feat, it's an 8th-level spell. The DC will be something like 22 for the first guy, 18 for the others - hardly unbeatable. You're better off Dominating creatures so you can get all of their actions in the same round.
Vegepygmy
07-23-07, 02:05 AM The fact that the description says "One creature" has to be interpreted as a mistake; there is only one "one creature" concerned at the time of casting - you.I agree.

I assume that what they mean is that you can only target one creature at a time after the spell is already in effect...but technically, the target should be "You."
Anathema
07-23-07, 02:20 AM Without any kind of fanciful interpretations of the spell (which are correct, logistically, I should say) this won't work. It won't work because Magic Jar allows you to attempt to possess another creature after possessing one, it simply moves your conciousness in to the new creature and the previous creature gets theirs back.

So, in essence, even if you did apply the Chain Spell feat to Magic Jar, it would swap souls with the next target in the chain, then the previous host would get theirs back .. and so on until someone failed their save.

Not impossible, just worthless.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sajek 07-22-07, 03:44 PM	The Chain Spell feat (Comp.Arc) reads "Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained." The Magic Jar spell is a single target spell with a range greater than touch. So what would happen if you possesed multiple people at once? I would just flat out say you can't chain Magic Jar, what would you say?
Sarlax 07-22-07, 04:36 PM	I'd let it work because it's such a fun idea. The caster would possess multiple bodies, with all of the original souls being trapped within the same gem. I would restrict the caster to one action per round, however. He still possesses a single soul and mind, meaning he can only apply his attentions to one body. Every other body would be effectively dazed. If questioned for the rules basis for this view, I'd refer to this: "Attempting to possess a body is a full-round action." The soul seems to be what permits actions, not the body, short of a special effect (like Choker quickness).
Horseshoe_Hermit 07-22-07, 07:52 PM	If there is a target, it's you, or the jar. The fact that the description says "One creature" has to be interpreted as a mistake; there is only one "one creature" concerned at the time of casting - you. "I'd let it work because it's such a fun idea. The caster would possess multiple bodies, with all of the original souls being trapped within the same gem." I'd rule that it can't work because of the very ridiculousness you have described. How can something be a fun idea if it makes no sense? That's like saying you enjoy three-legged horses that have four legs. The receptacle can't contain more than one soul. No soul can inhabit more than one body. You can't force a soul into the receptacle except by possessing the body. !!!! It's obvious that chaining the spell in this way can't work.
Sajek 07-22-07, 09:29 PM	If there is a target, it's you, or the jar. The fact that the description says "One creature" has to be interpreted as a mistake; there is only one "one creature" concerned at the time of casting - you. How could "one creature" mean yourself? I'd rule that it can't work because of the very ridiculousness you have described. How can something be a fun idea if it makes no sense? It's a fun idea because it is not covered by the rules and you get to make rules for yourself. I'm coming to agree with Sarlax on how it would work. That's like saying you enjoy three-legged horses that have four legs. Huh? The receptacle can't contain more than one soul. No soul can inhabit more than one body. ...where does it say this?
dknight100 07-22-07, 11:14 PM	So far it seems like it would work - and the restriction on how many actions is an interesting twist on a player only being able to take his free actions, 1 move action and 1 standard action, 2 move actions, or a full round action. This reading makes sense, i mean, the rules for actions per round don't state "a character's body", so possessing multiple bodies doesn't look like it would grant multiple actions. Its a powerful ability, to be sure, but thats kinda what metamagic is for. Its certainly no world ending power though - if the possessing players actual body gets killed, he's still stuffed, and while he could possess multiple creatures with this, he would have to spread his actions around. Also, i don't follow the whole: I'd rule that it can't work because of the very ridiculousness you have described. How can something be a fun idea if it makes no sense? That's like saying you enjoy three-legged horses that have four legs. For something to not be fun if it made no sense, the reason it would be fun would have to not make sense (not to mention that the capability to possess multiple people doesn't sound ridiculous). Saying you enjoy 3 legged horses with 4 legs is simply nonsensical, while saying that the idea of being able to possess multiple people with a metamagic'ed majic jar is a fun idea makes perfect sense.
Osedox 07-23-07, 12:00 AM	The cool thing about chain spell is that it says a single target can only be affected one time, so I take that to mean that if they succeed on their initial save, then they haven't been affected by the spell, so have them keep making saves until they get unlucky. Then you can use whatever other targets you have remaining to effect other creatures. This combo is bad, but Reach Spell+Chain Spell+Vampiric Touch is worst.
Sarlax 07-23-07, 12:34 AM	Its a powerful ability, to be sure, but thats kinda what metamagic is for. Yep. After the feat, it's an 8th-level spell. The DC will be something like 22 for the first guy, 18 for the others - hardly unbeatable. You're better off Dominating creatures so you can get all of their actions in the same round.
Vegepygmy 07-23-07, 02:05 AM	The fact that the description says "One creature" has to be interpreted as a mistake; there is only one "one creature" concerned at the time of casting - you.I agree. I assume that what they mean is that you can only target one creature at a time after the spell is already in effect...but technically, the target should be "You."
Anathema 07-23-07, 02:20 AM	Without any kind of fanciful interpretations of the spell (which are correct, logistically, I should say) this won't work. It won't work because Magic Jar allows you to attempt to possess another creature after possessing one, it simply moves your conciousness in to the new creature and the previous creature gets theirs back. So, in essence, even if you did apply the Chain Spell feat to Magic Jar, it would swap souls with the next target in the chain, then the previous host would get theirs back .. and so on until someone failed their save. Not impossible, just worthless.