Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowfax7 08-18-05, 07:39 PM	I have read somewhere that a Cleric cannot change a domain once chosen. Thus if his alignment changed so that he cannot have an alignment domain that he had, he cannot replace that domain with another. However, I cannot remember where I have seen this ??
Seeker95 08-18-05, 08:40 PM	Not a direct help, but I am guessing Complete Divine. However, there is likely to be one major exception to all of this: a cleric who changes deity is not bound by such restriction. S/He loses *all* previous domains, and gains two from the new deity. Of course, changing deities carries its own major baggage.
CryoSilver 08-18-05, 09:01 PM	If you wanted the same with a cleric not devoted to a god, I think you could talk your DM into allowing it if you recieved and Atonement from a cleric with the domain you want to replace your old one with, but ONLY if your alignment matches the new domain.
Seeker95 08-18-05, 11:29 PM	If you wanted the same with a cleric not devoted to a godThe worst concept ever introduced into D&D, with the possible exception of gestalt.
Shadowfax7 08-19-05, 01:25 PM	However, there is likely to be one major exception to all of this: a cleric who changes deity is not bound by such restriction. S/He loses *all* previous domains, and gains two from the new deity. Of course, changing deities carries its own major baggage. Luckily this isn't a choice the player is looking at as a future Atonement could possibly revert him back to his old CG alignment. Right now I am going w/the strict interpretation that the now LG Cleric loses the Chaos domain he previously had and no other domain replaces it, even though his deity can grant the domains of Chaos, Good and War (which he has). But I will look through CD to see if there is anything there about this . . .
Seeker95 08-19-05, 03:58 PM	I like the strict interpretation. I even like that the deity would not grant his "other" domain, since the cleric demonstrated a lack of fealty in switching his moral compass. Sure, the irony is that he demonstrated an extremely chaotic act (changing alignment) thereby negating his right to the Domain of Chaos!
CryoSilver 08-19-05, 05:51 PM	Worst concept? I beg to differ... IMC, there are no gods and the clerics are free to choose their domains as they want, and it doesn't seem to be as bad as "worst concept ever" would warrant.
Seeker95 08-19-05, 07:03 PM	IMC, there are no gods and the clerics are free to choose their domains as they wantKinda makes "divine magic" an oxymoron. But if it works in your campaign.
Nom 08-19-05, 07:22 PM	In all likelihood, your cleric has worse problems than simply loss of access to a domain. Your cleric is now Lawful Good. In contrast, your god grants the Chaos domain, which means that he is Chaotic (something) in alignment and outlook. Your god values freedom, individual expression, choice, diversity and change. You value tradition, order, discipline, and doing things the "right" way. These are not compatible ideals. At a minimum, you are going to struggle with your church / cult, as your patterns of belief and behaviour no longer mesh well with theirs. Further, you have likely been taught particular rituals and practices to prepare and use your magic, and will now find that you find these difficult and unnatural due to your incompatible mindset. If your campaign considers your connection to your deity to be active and tangible, you will have the further problem of explicit censure. As a side issue, note that prohibitions against using certain descriptors are based firstly on your cult or deity's alignment, not your own. A Chatoic deity does not grant Lawful spells, regardless of the cleric's alignment. Of course, you may have a philosophical issue with Chaotic spells, further limiting your selection.
Shadowfax7 08-19-05, 10:00 PM	. . . since the cleric demonstrated a lack of fealty in switching his moral compass. The Cleric's alignment was changed by magic, not by his choice. I would not allow an Atonement w/o XP loss to the caster if he changed his alignment voluntarily to an alignment not supporting one of his domains, nor even consider providing him w/another domain. In all likelihood, your cleric has worse problems than simply loss of access to a domain. Your cleric is now Lawful Good. In contrast, your god grants the Chaos domain, which means that he is Chaotic (something) in alignment and outlook. Your god values freedom, individual expression, choice, diversity and change. You value tradition, order, discipline, and doing things the "right" way. These are not compatible ideals. This slipped my mind . . . and yes, creates a new and more serious problem. The Cleric's deity is Sif (Norse godess from Deities & Demigods) who is CG in alignment and whose clerics should be CG, CN or NG. Now the new question is, does the cleric lose all spellcasting ability due to his alignemnt change to LG ?? I am wary to rule this way as this is a severe penalty for an involuntary alignment change. The PHB states that a Cleric must be within one step (either lawful-chaotic axis or good-evil axis) of his/her deity's alignment. But under ex-clerics it states a cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by his/her deity loses all spells and class features, etc., not one that changes alignment, involuntarily or voluntarily.
Seeker95 08-19-05, 10:55 PM	Now the new question is, does the cleric lose all spellcasting ability due to his alignemnt change to LG ??Depends on what you want for your game. Since the cleric didn't really change alignment, but had its alignment changed, can it truly be said to be an alignment change? Would the deity, who knows the circumstances, consider it an actual alignment change? Would a Chaotic deity care? As an aside, I do not force alignment changes in my game, regardless of the context, circumstances, etc. Alignment is a measure of how the player plays the character. I assign alignment based on the characters' actions. This removes a lot of headaches. Your alignment doesn't "change". It matches the general nature of your behavior.
Shadowfax7 08-19-05, 11:56 PM	Would the deity, who knows the circumstances, consider it an actual alignment change? This seems to make the most sense and is a compromise as the Cleric still needs an Atonement to obtain his Chaos domain spells back and be in good standing w/his goddess. As an aside, I do not force alignment changes in my game, regardless of the context, circumstances, etc. The magic which caused the change in alignment was an artifact . . . the Balance card in the Deck of Many Things.
Seeker95 08-20-05, 08:18 AM	The magic which caused the change in alignment was an artifact . . . the Balance card in the Deck of Many Things.Ahhh... that old thing. A greater thorn in a DM's side has never been introduced into the game. Yeah, I'd go with the whole atonement thing. And if the *player* does a really good job of playing LG in the process, even an experience reward. As for the atonement... Have the deity combine it with a quest so the cleric suffers in the process. The quest could require the cleric to work with a decidedly-not-good companion (insert Assassin or other killer-for-hire) in removing from power a minion of Asmodeus (insert LE organization here) that has imposed martial law and strict regiment upon an entire nation in which the Church had once proudly stood for the rights and benefits of the common populace. The cleric is to protect the assassin rather than to commit the assassination directly. Or something like that.